Latest disgusting submission results
clevegreg
Posts: 909 ✭
PCGS Order Status for Invoice # 9001708
LINE # CERT # COIN DATE DENOMINATION VARIETY GRADE
1 40037687 1971 $1 MS64
1 40037688 1971 $1 MS64
1 40037689 1971 $1 MS64
1 40037690 1971 $1 MS64
2 40037691 1971-D $1 MS64
3 40037692 1972-D $1 MS65
3 40037693 1972-D $1 MS64
3 40037694 1972-D $1 MS64
3 40037695 1972-D $1 MS64
Date Received: 11/21/2002
Date Shipped: No Date Specified
You know, I have about had it!!!!
ALL of these IKE's are from Original rolls that I bought recently, and EVERY ONE OF THEM is significantly nicer than the slabbed PCGS MS 65 coinS that I compared them to that it isn't even close to being funny.
I talked to Sandy in Customer Support, who was very pleasant, and had her put a stop on the coins before they leave. I told her that if they don't upgrade to 65 AT LEAST that I am going to send back all of my 65s and 66s and have them grade reviewed, and that they better come back as 63s, and PCGS better have their checkbook ready.
Sandy said that they would go to a senior grader to be evaluated. I challenged her and David Hall to take any 71 MS65 they have in "stock" etc. and dare to compare it with these. There is NO F$#^$##$$# WAY that these are ALL 64s except for the one 65. The 71 "P"s were the nicest bunch of the whole group, so if only ONE FRIGGING COIN from this whole submission were to be a 65, it should have been from that group.
OK, I feel a tiny bit better. This is almost the last straw for me with PCGS.
Greg
LINE # CERT # COIN DATE DENOMINATION VARIETY GRADE
1 40037687 1971 $1 MS64
1 40037688 1971 $1 MS64
1 40037689 1971 $1 MS64
1 40037690 1971 $1 MS64
2 40037691 1971-D $1 MS64
3 40037692 1972-D $1 MS65
3 40037693 1972-D $1 MS64
3 40037694 1972-D $1 MS64
3 40037695 1972-D $1 MS64
Date Received: 11/21/2002
Date Shipped: No Date Specified
You know, I have about had it!!!!
ALL of these IKE's are from Original rolls that I bought recently, and EVERY ONE OF THEM is significantly nicer than the slabbed PCGS MS 65 coinS that I compared them to that it isn't even close to being funny.
I talked to Sandy in Customer Support, who was very pleasant, and had her put a stop on the coins before they leave. I told her that if they don't upgrade to 65 AT LEAST that I am going to send back all of my 65s and 66s and have them grade reviewed, and that they better come back as 63s, and PCGS better have their checkbook ready.
Sandy said that they would go to a senior grader to be evaluated. I challenged her and David Hall to take any 71 MS65 they have in "stock" etc. and dare to compare it with these. There is NO F$#^$##$$# WAY that these are ALL 64s except for the one 65. The 71 "P"s were the nicest bunch of the whole group, so if only ONE FRIGGING COIN from this whole submission were to be a 65, it should have been from that group.
OK, I feel a tiny bit better. This is almost the last straw for me with PCGS.
Greg
0
Comments
"Senorita HepKitty"
"I want a real cool Kitty from Hepcat City, to stay in step with me" - Bill Carter
In God We Trust.... all others pay in Gold and Silver!
Ogden
I'm not poking fun....I can see it's incredibly frustrating to you, not to mention what you laid out in grading fees. I'm hoping you get some satisfaction...
To the top because I am pi$$ed, and because I can.
Greg
that play into their opinions when grading Ike dollars.
I knew they were tough on Ikes but are they even tougher today?
Greg
Good luck with the review of your Ikes. Here's to hoping at least a couple will upgrade for you.
peacockcoins
I had them graded as LOCK 65s with 2 that were 66s in my opinion, but I never really expected that from them. I am serious when I say that this really makes me feel PHYSICALLY ILL. I have another submission that will probably be graded next week with some truly superb Franklins, and it stinks that the grading has gotten so bad that I KNOW what they should grade, but I dont have a CLUE what PCGS is going to grade them as.
Perhaps they have one grader that is causing the inconsitencies. I truly hope that is the case, and perhaps my screaming and yelling may have a positive impact on PCGS and all of us who submit to them.
Greg
<< <i> I have another submission that will probably be graded next week with some truly superb Franklins >>
Fer sures will you have to let Lucy know what happens on this one! We both go over there and beat down their door!
"Senorita HepKitty"
"I want a real cool Kitty from Hepcat City, to stay in step with me" - Bill Carter
Greg
My nine year old daughter can already grade within one point most of the time, they were off by 2 POINTS on some of the coins in my opinion.
I really am starting to wonder if the financial pressure that this company is under is causing them to grade to limit their liability. The sudden increase in the number of 70s being graded fits in this scenerio as well, as it will probably have the long term effect of lowering the prices on the MS and PR 70 population already out there, and thus reducing their exposure to regrades significantly.
Greg
Greg
I sent in 3 Ikes over a year ago, all common date 71-D's that have booming luster and are clean with a good strike, all 3 came back MS64. I have 3 MS65's of the date, and only one, a very nicely toned one that I also submitted(I thought was a lock 66) was better than my MS64's.
New collectors, please educate yourself before spending money on coins; there are people who believe that using numismatic knowledge to rip the naïve is what this hobby is all about.
Thanks for you advice
Greg
edited for spelling
Grading coins is not much different than playing poker in a tournament. You are going to be dealt good hands, bad hands, great hands that turn lousy and lousy hands that turn great. The key is to always have "a chip and a seat" left, so you are always in the game.
Look - you feel those coins are MS65/66 coins right? So, you are really out $10/coin at the most - right? OK- you lost this poker hand today and you were dealt "Aces up". But, time to move on (after PCGS tells you whatever they tell you). Crack those coins and send in the very best 3 or 4 coins next week. Sell your MS65 slabs that can't compare to your raw coins and pick up nice money for your inferior coins.
Most importantly, don't let it get to you. You are ruining the enjoyment of your hobby over "principles"; surely $80 isn't driving your emotions.
GREG: REMEMBER THIS: WHEN YOU WAKE UP TOMORROW - THE CARDS WILL BE SHUFFLED AGAIN AND YOU ARE READY TO PLAY THE NEXT HAND - you are in this "game" still, which is the key
I may just have to decide to play Poker somewhere else
Greg
Nah: You're just upset because in this grading "game" every now and then "Joker's Wild" and you just lost a tough hand when a couple Joker's came up
Wondercoin
Greg
Greg: You know how it is - sometimes you play out West in Vegas and other times you go East to Atlantic City. The game is still the game. Perhaps you feel back East the "house's take" isn't as high and there are less "Joker's Wild" games , but, in the end, you need to see what you walk away from the table with in either "gaming hall". As KR once said (in so many words), don't count your chips until the game is over though.
Wondercoin
I recently sent PCGS 15 MS64 Ike Dollars that I cracked out (One 1971P MS64, received MS63), (14 MS64 1972P Ikes: received 3 MS63's and 11 MS64). I compared these coins with my MS65 1971P and 1972P coins and thought they looked equivalent. I guess that is fairly consistant grading, but I thought I would receive at least one MS65. I will not crack out anymore coins to try for a higher grade!!! I have had better luck crossing over coins from NGC and ANACS. I also sent in 11 Ikes from mint sets and did get 3 65's and 1 66, but seveval of the MS64's look better than the 65's, go figure.
I really don't know what to make of PCGS grading of Ikes. I think Mitch has the right attitude about PCGS grading, treat it like a game. Sometimes you have good luck and sometimes not.
Charlie
I always try to keep as many options available as possible. I guess I am just not in the mood for games lately. Just give me the facts man
Thanks Mitch
Greg
Charlie: Yes, but don't think for a minute that there are not submission "pros" just like there are "card pros". There is an element of luck for sure, but there is also no substitute for skill as well. The "grading pros" win and win a lot and win big. As one masters the grading game, it does hurt a bit more to "lose" than when one is a "rookie", as you know you played the game well and still lost. No doubt Greg is confident of his grading skills, which is why he took this so hard.
Wondercoin.
I should not have to have PCGS re-examine coins(kiss a$$) to get them to grade coins correctly.
Vam: Point well taken, but many exciting things in life are like card games - I've been married for 14 years, but remember my dating days. Want to talk about "kissing a$$"
Ignoring the talk amongst dealers and collectors regarding the RE$UBMI$$ION game will cost PCGS in the long run.
sounds like you got hammered by PCGS. i'm wondering if you sent the oregon trail in yet??
what i find ironic about your ike results is that they were consistent within the parameters of their inconsistency, if that makes any sense. they graded 1-2 points under your personal estimate, yet they were consistent across the board on the submission. that tells me that they were graded accurately but the "bar" has been moved, which is a valid point to rail against.
al h.
Well said
Hey I know that the 71 P in particular is a toughie in 65, but I have others from PCGS to compare the ones i sent in against. The coins I sent in are much nicer, they just are period. It causes that paradox of "well what is the platic worth if the grading isn't consistent. Are my MS65 PCGS IKEs really ms65s, or are they now 64s".
I know no one is perfect, but this consistent inconsistency has got to stop. It almost seems that they want to challenge you to send them back in because you KNOW that they deserve a higher grade. It is getting to the point where this "game" seems to be happening all of the time now.
BTW, Dave Sands made me an offer I couldn't refuse on the Oregon on Saturday at the show right before I left
Greg
do you think any of the flip-flopping has to do with pesonell turnover, and right now with D. H. taking the helm?
about the oregon, i wonder if it made 65-66, it sure was a sweetie!!!
al h.
I agree they probably would grade 65+ anywhere and by anyone else except PCGS.
Also that your grading is very consistent with PCGS on those.A one point spread all the way through
means you are both right.A PCGS MS64,is atleast a NGC MS65,heck, if you want numbers PCI it for a 66
or something.
Not sure I agree with the poker game analogy either.Its more like Craps.Thats it ..a Crap shoot.
Thats why alot of coins get resubitted so many dam times.To max out the coin for its number value.
Now we,re buying the plastic and not the coin.Its the obvious pit fall in the hobby.
One last thing is to just keep the `slabbed PCGS 64s` and just ask for 65 money.Many a buyer just may agree with you and go for it.
The 71P came back as an MS62 and the 71D came back as an MS63.
The 72P Type two came back as an MS62 (Which is what I expected for this coin).
But, the 71s really Pi$$ed me off because they should have both been 65s and I thought the 71D was a 66.
Anyway, that is my story and why I have not submitted any more coins.
Richard.
i have a complete set of ikes, handpicked every single coin from blue & brown packs, etc. i still upgrade em on occasion. no idea what they would slab at, but i can tell you i probably spent no more than five bucks on any 1 of them. it is the 1 set that i might, just for fun, submit & see what shakes out. on 2d thought, after reading this thread - fuhgettaboutit.
K S