Hey Mercury heads, give me some tips on grading the Winged Liberty.

LucyBop

I am very aware of the full split bands and know what to look for but, besides clean fields what should one also look for in a coin? What makes a 65, 66 and 67?

KlectorKid

A good strike... they gave my merc a 65 cause of strike... a little harder and it would have been atleast 66.

Fairlaneman

This should be interesting !!

I would try to help you but being somewhat from the old school where grades do not change from month to month I'm really lost to give you a up to date answer on what makes those grades this month.

Sorry.

Ken

LucyBop

I am looking for specifics of where to look for wear on Little Lady Libertys pretty face. If a coin is a strong FSB is it safe to think that atleast the Reverse is a 65? And what will a mushy strike look like on both the obverse and reverse. I have some raw GEMS that I do believe are fully struck.

quattrocoins

Reecky, you got some 'splainin' to do to Looosy!

Ba Ba Looo

Ken, I thought you said mouth to mouth! LOL

Seriously, Lucy, the best advice I can give is to pick up a few "cheapos" in those grades and have a good look. You can probably get five of 'em for one good Frankie!

Don

Good eyes, and

LucyBop

On the Frankie, aside from the Bell Lines one has to look for clean fields, one also has to look at the Bell for bagmarks, one also has to look at Frankies cheek for marks and also the 3 little curls of hair by his ear, depending on the year this could be an indication of wear. And of course eye appeal is always a factor but most high grade Frankies don't have the best eye appeal due to some ugly mint set toning, anyways I was wondering if there were any points to concentrate on for the winged liberty. I have botten some very nice uncirculated ones, but was looking for some tips on how to scrutinize them more closely.

Fairlaneman

Lucy try your hand with these. There is one of each grade from 63 thru 67. Good Luck !



I will give you a couple of pointers on 65 and above. If there is a slide mark or hairline forget getting the 65 or above grade from PCGS. If the Dime is a early date just take away one grade from what you think it is. Luster is of the utmost importance, most of the time. Originality is very helpful. Eye appeal is in the Eye of the grader.

Are you confused yet ?

Ken

LucyBop

seems that the 44 is the highest grade and the 23 has wear and is the lowest. the 1919 seems to be a weak strike, there seems to be some chatter by the y on the 45 but this one looks good. the 28 seems to have some rub in the chin area with a ding in the neck... Not sure what to grade these..

Fairlaneman

Well I threw a little curve at you.

The 23 is really a 25D which is well known for having a very weak strike. The coin is mark free but just weak like almost any 25D you will see. The Graders seem to have problems with certain dates that are weakly struck. Its a 63FB coin.

On to the 19 which is a 19S. Another coin that is known for a weak strike. This one is just a little pale and that is probably why it got the 64.

The 65 coin is the 28 which is a P mint coin. Totally original so that is why the hit on the neck was over looked. Either that or the grader was blind on this one.

The 45P is the 66 coin. A lot of chatter in the right field. To me this puts the coin into the 64 range. I'm not kicking on this one though because the reverse is about 70 to 80 percent FB.

The 44D is the 67 Coin. You nailed this one. Nice strike for the date and no hits of any kind. I would say the Tone bumped this from 66 to 67. Just a guess on that but I do have a few 66 coins that are as nice as this one.

There you go and I hope this helped you a little. One other little thing. It has been mentioned by many that for some reason the Grading Services are very strick on Mercs. I agree with this assessment.

Ken

LucyBop

Gulp the 23 is a 25, I misread the date, it does seem that there is wear to to right of the eye in the head area... Thanks.....

LucyBop

Sounds like I need a good book! One that points out what years are known for weak strikes and whatnot........

Fairlaneman

A little more help.



Lucy where the weak strike is on the 25D if there is broken luster it is indeed wear then. I'm sure you know this though.

Ken

LucyBop

Thanks for the great info, and who said an angry duck didn't know anything?





I now think I will be better prepared to search thru the raw Mercs seeking GEMS!

python1

Nice Job Ken!

grip

Nice pointers KEN,not maney days go by without you helping someone.And it shows.Al

remumc

Thanks Hepkitty and Fairlaneman,

Good continuing education for me also!

Regards,

Wayne

TAP444

Hey ken, how about posting some later dates
with strong strikes in the 65-66 area for comparison
thanks Tim

LucyBop

I'm feelin it boyz, mixing up some Margaritas and encoding christmas doo wop for my rare page!

The HepKitty and the Mercury Heads, making this the best forum in the country Daddy-o! The Hepcats get real gone over here and with the Kitty, the joint is always jumpin!

coinrookie

Lucy, also look at the bands carefully. I have seen a few where while the bands are split some of them seem to have a part of the band that is flattened out somewhat. Previously mentioned but the jaw line is very suseptable to wear.

Fairlaneman

Here is the Early Date/Late Date comparison.

No Contest in My book. Both PCGS 65FB coins.

Hmmm....Why is the 20P only 65 ???

grip

Ken
Correct me if im wrong.The 20 has to many imperfections in the field,no big hits just not clean enough as the 42 is,but does have a few hits and cleaner fields.Al

Fairlaneman

Al:

You have seen that 20P in person I believe. Dennis sold it to me. A couple of little hits and one luster break in the left field. Heck the Strike makes up for that. Never will a dime after 1926 be struck like this 20P is.

Ken

LucyBop

What AWESOME eye candy!

grip

Ken
Your right,the strike is outstanding,have you tryed having it upgraded?Al

PTVETTER

Great post. I would only add to it, look on the cheak and neck for distracting marks.

mbbiker

Thanks for the post everyone this helped me out alot.

remumc

Ken, that 20 is a beauty, I don't have many early dimes, and certainly nothing with a strike like that! The detail in the hair and wing feathers is amazing. Thanks for posting the pictures.

Regards,

Wayne

DIMEMAN

Great post guys. Ken has given some very sound and good advice and the pics were great. Like Ken said PCGS seems to be really hard on Mercs. I guess because it is such a small coin there can't be very many hits and still grade above 61. It takes a pretty clean coin to grade 64 and then it's just a crap shoot from there on up.

The thing to be really careful on is buying raw uncs. I have seen so many Mercs that looked great but came back 58. Most of the time it is hairlines on the face. And the coin has to be tilted just right to catch these lines, but PCGS graders always seem to find them. I don't think I will ever buy raw unc Merc again unless it's a screamer and priced as an AU.

I personally think all the good Mercs have found there way to a holder and the ones left are marginal.

JMHO, Jon

grip

Jon
Your quite right,but sometimes we get lucky.I just purchased this one off ebay,and paid 65+ money.Im not sure what it will grade out,but I would be a little upset if it didn't make an 8.Al
36-D Raw

LucyBop

Always hard to tell from pics, but that little Raw winged Liberty sure looks like a GEM!

remumc

Al, very nice dime. I'm keeping my fingers crossed for you!

Wayne

DIMEMAN

Al,

Very nice 36-D. That's one coin I wouldn't be afraid to buy raw. It has a super strike and looks flawless.
Be sure and let us know what it grades.

Jon

grip

Jon
I couldn't find a mark on it using a 14 loup,I couuldn't believe it when I received it...There is a coin GodAl

TAP444

Al that dime looks perfect,I wish you the best on the grade
please let us know what it gets, think it couls go 69fb??
that would be really cool
best of luck
Tim

coinrookie

Holy(well you know.). Al what a beauty. Congrats.

Fairlaneman

AL:

Nice coin but it is way too White to get a 68 grade. 66 or 67 would be real cool though. Some of the lettering on the rim looks somewhat weak. Am I seeing things again ? Lock 66 with good shot at 67 IMO. As you know these grades depend on the graders mood at the time.

Oh to answer a question you asked earlier. I have never sent a dime in for up-grade. Waste of Money at this time I believe. Maybe when all is done the best will be picked for possible up-grades. Heck maybe I'll send them all to NGC. Hmmm.

Jon:

Even I still buy a Raw Coin every once in awhile. Usually after looking at one when it gets home I can find slide marks every time. So Yes I agree with you. Dimes on the Market now would be in a slab if they deserved it. Maybe someday a person may put some fresh coins unslabbed on the market, but I doubt it.

Wayne:

Keep your eyes open. The two best strikes I have had were both 20P's. The one Dennis sold me and the coin it replaced. The one that was replaced I believe I offered it to people on the BST board and no one wanted it. The coin dealer in Vancouver finally got the coin. 23P's can be cool looking also.

Got my 35S today. Somewhat of a Killer Coin I think.

Ken

Spooly

What makes a 65, 66 and 67

Lucy, don't listen to these guys!

Mercs fish lure grades and usage:

65 - Freshwater fishing (5LB and up)
66 - Shallow salt water fishing
67 - Deep salt water fishing

grip

Spooly
LMAO.Al

remumc

Ken,

Must have been even before I joined the boards, but then I seldom check the BST boards. I know I would have been interested if funds were available.

Spooly,

On the 67's, for real gulf coast deep water fishing, you need to to use at least a DCAM Kennedy or Ike. Be sure to drill a hole at top and bottom and z bend the hook through the holes, then silver solder the shank to the coin for strength. The big fish down here wouldn't twitch their tail for a Merc. Merc's are much better for catching Hepkittys!

Regards,

Wayne

remumc

Heere Hepkitty kitty kitty,
Merc-Nip

LucyBop

Prrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!

Meow! Meow! Meow!

Fairlaneman

ttt