The Quest For Feedback
SarasotaFrank
Posts: 1,625 ✭✭
WIth all of the buying I do on ebay, and have a paltry number of feedbacks to show for it, ebay sellers never cease to amaze me.
This week, I received a coin from an ebay auction - a very nice NGC Peace Dollar. In the seller included a very nice, long note. Paraphrased, the highlights are:
"Here is the coin you ordered. Thanks so much for your business. I want all of my customers to be fully satisifed and a deal is never done until (here it comes) every knows everyone is happy.
Please leave positive feedback and I will respond in kind.
A couple of days later, I won an auction for another Peace Dollar and received an email from the seller (as opposed to ebay, which I prefer) with the total amount. I paid for it immediately with PayPal and got another email teh next morning, which went something like this:
"WOW! Thanks for the blazing fast response and payment - your coin will go out in the morning. I love it when ebay buyers are so prompt - everybody should be like you. When you receive your coin, please leave positive feedback and then I will do the same"
I couldn't resist responding to this one in this fashion:
"Something puzzles me about ebay. You have asked me to leave positive feedback for you, and if I do, you will leave positive fedback for me. Is there something about the way I have communicated with you or the sped with which I have responded which makes me unworthy of positive feedback based on my performance as a buyer?"
"Your praise for my speed in payiing is a bit hollow if you feel this performance on my part can only be worthy of positive feedback in exchange, as opposed to based on it's merit."
His response claimed he USED to leave feedback when payment was received, but then was blackmailed by someone for a positive, after he left a positive.
I make it a point not to buy from people who demand positive feedback first. Maybe I'm too much of a harda$$.
This week, I received a coin from an ebay auction - a very nice NGC Peace Dollar. In the seller included a very nice, long note. Paraphrased, the highlights are:
"Here is the coin you ordered. Thanks so much for your business. I want all of my customers to be fully satisifed and a deal is never done until (here it comes) every knows everyone is happy.
Please leave positive feedback and I will respond in kind.
A couple of days later, I won an auction for another Peace Dollar and received an email from the seller (as opposed to ebay, which I prefer) with the total amount. I paid for it immediately with PayPal and got another email teh next morning, which went something like this:
"WOW! Thanks for the blazing fast response and payment - your coin will go out in the morning. I love it when ebay buyers are so prompt - everybody should be like you. When you receive your coin, please leave positive feedback and then I will do the same"
I couldn't resist responding to this one in this fashion:
"Something puzzles me about ebay. You have asked me to leave positive feedback for you, and if I do, you will leave positive fedback for me. Is there something about the way I have communicated with you or the sped with which I have responded which makes me unworthy of positive feedback based on my performance as a buyer?"
"Your praise for my speed in payiing is a bit hollow if you feel this performance on my part can only be worthy of positive feedback in exchange, as opposed to based on it's merit."
His response claimed he USED to leave feedback when payment was received, but then was blackmailed by someone for a positive, after he left a positive.
I make it a point not to buy from people who demand positive feedback first. Maybe I'm too much of a harda$$.
"I want to die peacefully in my sleep like my Grandfather did, as opposed to screaming in terror like his passengers."
0
Comments
Good point on Feedback.
You have upheld your commitment by prompt payment. You deserve your feedback now. It is now the sellers responsibility to deliver the sale item as described in a satifactory fashion. The seller should get their feedback at that time.
It does appear that some Ebayers - both buyers and sellers use feedback as a weapon. You are right to avoid them.
As a past seller on Ebay I always left my feedback the day I shipped the item. (userid: rgremb) I also posted the ship date in the feedback so the customer would know it was on its way.
Now when it comes to negative feedback, which I've never received, I'll go to any extreme to stop it from happening.
Frank, if your happy with the coins and the prices you pay don't you think it's a little silly to blacklist him because of his feedback policy? After you get to a certain point what does it really matter. People are going to look at your feedback and see you're a good guy.
I agree with your observations. As an occasional seller, I always leave feedback as soon as I receive a money order or paypal payment. When I receive a personal check from someone I don't know, I sometimes wait for the check to clear before I leave feedback (though I do NOT wait to ship the coin). I've never yet been burned by either a bad check nor an after the fact negative feedback. And as a buyer (which is probably 80% of my eBay transactions, I leave feedback usually within a day or two of receiving the coin----in some cases this may be up to a week after I should have received the coin, because it is very hard for me to get to the post office to pick up things that come on days my wife doesn't happen to be home to sign for them.
I hear all the arguments for sellers not posting feedback until the buyer posts, but I generally don't agree---I am convinced that almost any disagreement can be handled amicably, and, if not, witholding feedback isn't going to prevent you getting a negative. And, assuming you have any kind of feedback history, buyers and sellers can see through a vindictive negative.
But I also agree with thenumish that it is silly to blacklist someone because of his feedback polisy, if you like their coins and service. Several eBay dealers I buy from never leave feedback --- one of them, I recall, has said that they are happy to leave feedback once a week if you ask them via email. I asked them once when I was relatively new to eBay, but I don't really care anymore---my 500+ without a negative isn't going to look any better if it is one higher. I don't agree with them; but I certainly will not quit buying from them over this issue. I am buying coins, not feedback points.
Just my thoughts.
Pete
<< <i>I have enough feedback now where I don't really care if the person gives it to me. >>
Numish:
Therein lies the problem. No personal disrespect intended, but Ebay sellers with feedback ratings in the thousands forget what it was like trying to build their feedback. I for example, have a rating of 35, partially because when I find a seller I like, I buy a lot from them - in and out of ebay. Everytime I buy from a new seller it is an opportunity to get my feedback up.
<< <i>After you get to a certain point what does it really matter. >>
only if you are at that point, but not if you are trying to get there.
nothing personal, just me having a pet-peeve
The seller you described suffers from negaphobia, the fear of negative feedback.
½ of my dealers demand the same thing but I disregard it and leave feedback when I get the coin and decide I'm happy with the deal and don't really care if they leave fb for me or not.
As a seller I leave fb as soon as I get the $$ in my sweaty little hands and if they are not happy then they can take advantage of my return policy and if they do try to blackmail me or hold me feedback hostage then it simply won't do them any good because I'm more scared of a speed cop writing me a ticket than I am of getting a neg. All it means is that I dealed with a butthead on an eBay auction and really doesn't affect my coin collection or my life at all. When I send the coin I include a note saying "here's your coin hope you like it if you don't then return it, thanks dog97" and I have never even mentioned feedback.
never send a coin back before you get the feedback.
I hate it when you see my post before I can edit the spelling.
Always looking for nice type coins
my local dealer
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
peacockcoins
As the seller that sold Frank the 1923 NGC MS-63 Peace dollar, I own up to sending the comments he posted in his thread. As an eBay seller, my feedback rating is currently 2170, with 3601 positives, 4 neutrals and 4 negatives. Without exception, the four negatives I recieved were from newbies who decided to leave negative feedback because they thought they had been wronged, but failed to contact me prior to leaving a negative comment. In one case, they were unhappy with another seller, but got our auctions confused and wen't ahead and gave me the negative, then gave the other guy the positive! He then sent me an email saying OOPS, I made a mistake.
Since the beginning of the year, I have instituted a policy of only returning feedback. If someone has a problem with one of my auctions, let them contact me and I'll try to work it out (as evidenced by my previous thread in this forum when a customer returned an NGC MS-65 Morgan without even the courtesy of an advance email). I have been selling on eBay long enough and have accumulated a record that most people would regard as above average. I don't beg for feedback, and if a buyer chooses not to leave feedback, that certainly is his or her prerogative.
Finally, feedback is a way of showing how the buyer and seller felt about the whole transaction. Just because someone pays me on time, doesn't mean the transaction has been concluded to my satisfaction. And just because I mail the item to a buyer in a timely manner, doesn't mean that the transaction has been concluded to their satisfaction. A lot of folks who don't leave me feedback, do send an email to tell me they have received their item and are happy with it, but don't leave feedback. That's alright with me too.
The bottom line is that I try to treat people the way I would want to be treated. If that doesn't live up to their expectations, it isn't for lack of trying on my part.
P.S. If you read the note again Frank, I think you will see that nowhere does it mention leaving me POSITIVE feedback. The correct unabridged text is:
" Thank you for bidding on my auction. Enclosed is your item, as well as a bonus gift I hope you will enjoy. I do not consider this transaction complete until I know you are happy with your purchase. The best way to do this is to leave me feedback. I will respond in kind immediately. If you are not happy, please contact me and I will do my best to resolve any problems you might have."
My Website
"Everything I have is for sale except for my wife and my dog....and I'm not sure about one of them."
My Website
"Everything I have is for sale except for my wife and my dog....and I'm not sure about one of them."
<< <i>OK, here I'm going to really leave myself open to some serious flaming, but I promise not to take offense at anything anyone says.
As the seller that sold Frank the 1923 NGC MS-63 Peace dollar, I own up to sending the comments he posted in his thread. >>
I did not see the need to identify this transaction with the parties involved, as the transaction itself was a positive one. The seller received their funds promptly, I received a coin that was everything I expected it to be.
<< <i>As an eBay seller, my feedback rating is currently 2170, with 3601 positives, 4 neutrals and 4 negatives. Without exception, the four negatives I recieved were from newbies who decided to leave negative feedback because they thought they had been wronged, but failed to contact me prior to leaving a negative comment. In one case, they were unhappy with another seller, but got our auctions confused and wen't ahead and gave me the negative, then gave the other guy the positive! He then sent me an email saying OOPS, I made a mistake. >>
as an ebay seller with 3601 positives, adding to this total is overkill, so why even give a second thought to providing feedback to someone with a feedback rating of 35? After all, you have yours, and judging from the quality of the item I purchased and the swiftness with which the transaction was handled - you have earned it.
<< <i>Since the beginning of the year, I have instituted a policy of only returning feedback. If someone has a problem with one of my auctions, let them contact me and I'll try to work it out (as evidenced by my previous thread in this forum when a customer returned an NGC MS-65 Morgan without even the courtesy of an advance email). I have been selling on eBay long enough and have accumulated a record that most people would regard as above average. I don't beg for feedback, and if a buyer chooses not to leave feedback, that certainly is his or her prerogative. >>
If your buyers had the same policy regarding feedback, you would have never accummulated 3601 positives.
<< <i>Finally, feedback is a way of showing how the buyer and seller felt about the whole transaction. Just because someone pays me on time, doesn't mean the transaction has been concluded to my satisfaction. >>
What other barometer is there for the satisfaction of the seller? That the buyer not return the coin?
<< <i>P.S. If you read the note again Frank, I think you will see that nowhere does it mention leaving me POSITIVE feedback. The correct unabridged text is: >>
Since I was only communicating the spirit of the transaction, I felt it was OK to take the liberty of paraphrasing. It was your choice to wade in. I realize now that you did not ask for POSITIVE feedback, but does this mean you were asking for negative feedback. I was very happy with the goods, and the speed. A very positive transaction in my opinion. I just don't want to be held hostage for feedback. For example, If I were to leave negative feedback - what would your response be? Your request for feedback was intended as reciprocal. I leave positive, you leave positive. I leave negative, you leave negative.
Let me re-emhasize, I received a more than fair value for my money - I got it fast, with good communication and in a friendly manner. I would recommend any one bidding on any of Dan's Auctions proceed with full conifdence that he is a man of his word and treats the customer fairly and equitably.
As a buyer with a feedback rating of 35 who does mostly repeat business with sellers he meets on ebay, I don't like Dan's feedback policy.
As a buyer, I leave feedback after the seller has, or when hell freezes over; whichever comes first.
Russ, NCNE
The auction expired as I was typing the above response.
Now I really don't like this feedback policy.
It is NO fun at all. I never bid on an item until inside the last minute, and I always have a thirty item watch list (see - I am an active buyer). I had an alarm set in my office for this auction and had the window open since 30 minutes to go. I was on this forum in a different browser and just got caught up in this issue.
did I mention I really don't like this feedback policy?
I can understand feedback is important when it's at 35. It was pretty important to me until I broke 500. You'll be over 100 before you know it and it won't matter anymore.
I did not see the need to identify this transaction with the parties involved, as the transaction itself was a positive one. The seller received their funds promptly, I received a coin that was everything I expected it to be.
I chose to reveal myself as the seller because I wanted to state the reasons behind my policies, not as uninterested observer, but as a participant in the transaction. I agree that our transaction was positive, and I believe you recieved good value for the money you paid, and I was certainly satisfied with the amound of money received for the coin.
If your buyers had the same policy regarding feedback, you would have never accummulated 3601 positives.
Since in my opinion the transaction is not complete until both parties are satisfied, the buyers are the first to know whether this has occured. For this reason, they should logically be the first ones to leave feedback.
What other barometer is there for the satisfaction of the seller? That the buyer not return the coin?
The are a multitude of reasons a seller might not be happy with a transaction that have nothing to do with whether the buyer sent payment or not. Among them are payments that come in unidentified, no auction number, no email address, no bidder ID, just a check or money order with a notation that says "coin". Sometimes it can take a couple of hours of detective work to figure out what the payment is for, which is a lot of work to put into a ten or twenty dollar coin. I live in Florida and have to charge State Sales tax on non-US coinage. How about all the Florida buyers who totally ignore this part of the invoice, and send the payment without the sales tax, which may only be 35 cents. Is it worth my time to try to get the money owed, or should I just eat it. If I even take the time to send the customer an email, I am losing money on the transaction, or even worse, am I losing goodwill? If I eat it, does it give me warm fuzzies about the transaction? Would I neg someone over something like that? Of course not! But I don't know that I would rush to leave glowing transactional report either.
As an ebay seller with 3601 positives, adding to this total is overkill, so why even give a second thought to providing feedback to someone with a feedback rating of 35? After all, you have yours, and judging from the quality of the item I purchased and the swiftness with which the transaction was handled - you have earned it.
It is precisely the guy with very few feedbacks that I worry about. Most eBayers with triple digit positive feedback are experienced enough to contact the seller about an item if there is a problem. It's the guy with a feedback rating of ten that I worry about (although I can't recall losing any sleep over it).
When you posted this thread your complaint was that your feedback rating wasn't growing fast enough. The reason for this is that a lot of sellers feel the same way I do about feedback. You, Russ and others certainly have a right to your beliefs, and I respect them, as I respect all of you. But when you stand on principle, you have to accept the consequences, which in this case means your feedback rating will not grow as quickly as it might have otherwise.
Finally, I really am sorry you missed out on those halves, so to try to make it up to you, I am on my way to leave you positive feedback as we speak
<< <i>Text >>
My Website
"Everything I have is for sale except for my wife and my dog....and I'm not sure about one of them."
way too much to repond to, and this horse is deader than disco, so there really isn't much sense beating it.
Regarding my number of feedbacks, I typically purchase a few coins in auctions and by a larger number of coins from the seller privately. I have established myself as a credible buyer. I buy often from the same individuals.
Regarding being afraid of someone with my low number of feedbacks, you might have reviewed my feedback to find that all of feedbacks are glowing, and a vast number from the same sellers. My only neg was a retailitory neg.
Those who sell to me who are members here know how I transact my business.
Lastly - as I have said all along - folks with hundreds or thousands of positives can afford to ignore buyers with 35 ratings. They forget how they got there.
I use www.auctionsniper.com . The first three snipes are free, then they charge you 25 cents for items that are less than $25.00. Over $25.00 they charge you one percent of the final auction price. It's a small price to pay for not having to stay up until 2 AM to snipe a coin you just have to have
My Website
"Everything I have is for sale except for my wife and my dog....and I'm not sure about one of them."
Over the last few years I've bought at least a thousand ebay items (Mostly signed,first ed. books) and I too have few feedbacks to show it.
I know this subject has been beaten to death so I won't drag it out but I just want these sellers to know that it would be nice if they'd post pos.feedback as soon as they have cash in hand.Their I-only-post-after-I-receive-a-positive- feedack argument is childish,ungrateful and rude. Twowood
As an eBay seller, I don't agree with demanding feedback before giving it. While we always leave feedback for those who give it to us (we do it in bulk, when time permits), we will happily give it first. But if a buyer wants feedback, the only way they are getting it is if they email or call to tell me they have received the coin and are happy with it. Or if they tell me they are not happy with it, and safely return the item. Again, it is just unfair to leave a feedback before a transaction is over. Bad things can (AND DO) happen during a transaction AFTER the buyer pays.
chris
">Franklin Halves
">Kennedy Halves
Another thing that suprises me about eBay sellers in general, and coin sellers in particular, is their failure to follow up on a sale.
In my former life,I was a salesman for a number of years and when I made a good sale I'd diary that customer and call again...More often than not I'd make another sale.
I've never received a follow up email from an Ebay seller! Strange. Twowood
Here's my 6 Steps to an EBay Transaction guide for EBayers.
1. Seller lists item for sale
2. Bidder places bid
3. Seller sends email notifying winning bidder within three days of where to send payment
4. Winning bidder sends payment within ten days of the end of auction
5. Seller collects payment, waits for check to clear if necessary, posts feedback and mails items
6. Bidder receives items, posts feedback
One item that I believe IS important is that feedback should be left whenever possible. Sellers, if you want to keep selling you should be leaving feedback. It only takes twenty seconds or so, so do it.
1. 7-17-81 Warrenton GC Driver 310 yards 7th Hole (Par 4)
2. 5-22-99 Warrenton GC 6 iron 189 yards 10th Hole
3. 7-23-99 Oak Meadow CC 5 iron 180 yards 17th Hole
4. 9-19-99 Country Lake GC 6 iron 164 yards 15th Hole
5. 8-30-09 Country Lake GC Driver 258 yards 17th Hole (Par 4)
Collector of Barber Halves, Commems, MS64FBL Frankies, Full Step Jeffersons & Mint state Washington Quarters
As I previously stated, sellers with feedback in the thousands treat giving feedback as beneath them, buyers with feedback under 100 should feel honored that they even allow them to buy their coins.
I don't like sellers holding feedback from me until I leave feedback first. I think it's unprofessional, but I give them the positive anyway. I think it's my "duty" to leave feedback when I receive my item, regardless of what the seller does or says.
Proof Dime Registry Set
I don't know that there is a whole lot that can be done to help your situation. Act in good faith and your record will reflect that some day. As long as you're happy with the people you've been dealing with and they continue to have the items you need, why deal with an unknown seller?
Russ' policy is as good as you can get as a bidder and I'd suggest following it. As long as you get your items I wouldn't worry about receiving feedback, if you get it great, if not, don't fret.
1. 7-17-81 Warrenton GC Driver 310 yards 7th Hole (Par 4)
2. 5-22-99 Warrenton GC 6 iron 189 yards 10th Hole
3. 7-23-99 Oak Meadow CC 5 iron 180 yards 17th Hole
4. 9-19-99 Country Lake GC 6 iron 164 yards 15th Hole
5. 8-30-09 Country Lake GC Driver 258 yards 17th Hole (Par 4)
Collector of Barber Halves, Commems, MS64FBL Frankies, Full Step Jeffersons & Mint state Washington Quarters
As to the theory that feedback is not as important once you have a rating in the thousands, I know that argument is not valid as I'm concerned. When I only had a two digit feedback rating, the first thing I did in the morning when I sat down at my computer was to check my feedback rating and return feedback. That procedure is still the same today. Most buyers that check feedback prior to making a purchase are generally concerned with recent history. You can ruin a good record in a hurry if you don't take care of your customers. Selling on eBay is still a service business, and you will always be judged by your most recent performance.
My Website
"Everything I have is for sale except for my wife and my dog....and I'm not sure about one of them."
All you got to do is go to your watch page and there's a tab on top that says feedback, click on it and it shows the feedback forms, you can click on the empty comment box and it makes a drop down menu with comments you can chose from. Shoot, if you are lazy like me you don't even have to type a single keystroke. Takes about 3 seconds.
The reason I'm so good about leaving feedback is because I use it for accountability.
Since I leave fb for buyers when I get the $$ if that buyer is still in my need to leave comment history that means he hasn't paid me yet and I haven't mailed his coin so I double check my records to make sure.
If a coin is in my need to leave comment for seller history it means I haven't received the coin yet so I'll be looking for it at mailcall.
I hate it when you see my post before I can edit the spelling.
Always looking for nice type coins
my local dealer