Offbeat looking Morgan

FC57Coins

Here's something a bit unusual I guess - This particular dollar has brownish/blueis/goldish tone to it. The "fingerprintlike" markings that you see on the obverse and to some degree on the reverse are all parallel or close to it - leading me to believe that these are actually textile marks. So, riddle me this? How does a coin get to be like this - toned on both sides with textile toning naturally? Does it mean that someone wrapped it in a cloth and kept it in a drawer for X number of years? If so, how does that differentiate this from AT? - Bytheway, its in a PCGS 63 holder.

Frank

coinrookie

I think method and intent should define AT. If it toned as your theory would suggest, it was still exposed to normal conditions. Ie: not deliberately exposed to certain chemicals or unnatural heat. It was exposed to elements that would basically be in an album,roll, or bag. Just a newbies opinion on the quagmire of the definition of AT.

dragon

That is not textile pattern toning, and the two-sided tone probably is the result from storage in a paper envelope or similar.

dragon

KlectorKid

Could be.. it might have been in the bottom corner of the bag and was surounded by the bag. But i still think its a finger print.

TomB

I don't recognize it as being textile toning, either. However, even if it were textile toning it very well could have toned in an original Mint bag that way simply be being in a fold of the canvas bag such that both sides of the coin were pressed against the bag.

Dog97

I have been seeing a lot of coins on eBay that the sellers are calling the fingerprints textile toning.
That coin is toned like that because somebody put their finger against the obv and pushed it into a Whitman type folder.
I really wouldn't call it original because the Mint didn't use Whitman folders to store Morgans in. If a Morgan doesn't have a dark purple blue green red yellow crescent or monochrome 1 sided dark purple green blue clearly from a bag then as far as I am concerned it isn't "original."

TomB

Here you go, Dog, an original toned Morgan-

stman

Dog97, Good to see your back to your usual grumpy self.
I told you a while back you were starting to get "soft" on your opinions of coins. But also a while back you used to call album tone and envelope tone "original". What happened? Too much junk out there?

stman

I had someone tell me this isn't original due to the almost mirror image on obv and rev.

Tonekiller

<< <i>I had someone tell me this isn't original due to the almost mirror image on obv and rev.


IMO, they lied to you.

TBT

stman

TBT, I agree and have no problem calling this "original".

dragon

TomB,

That 1881-S looks familiar.

stman, The coin you pictured looks 100% original to me and is a common original toning pattern, don't listen to whoever told you that.

dragon

RotatedRainbows

I agree with Dragon, you see that alot with morgans toned on both sides ie: very small rainbows instead of larger full coverage rainbows.

stman

Maybe I should say I know the coin is original. The "expert" that said it couldn't be due to the way it would have to sat in the bag, and the way the tone is almost the same on both sides.

Gilbert

stman,

That is a sweet 1886. Quite detailed. Is it a Philly or branch mint?

Frank,

The hue appears different from on side to the other. Was that intentional? BTW, I concur; that is an "off-beat" looking dollar.

FC57Coins

<< <i>That coin is toned like that because somebody put their finger against the obv and pushed it into a Whitman type folder >>



If that were the case then explain this: if it was a fingerprint, then one would think that the coin at the time that the toning started was relatively tone free. How then could the same pattern permeate the entire front and back of the coin? - Don't coins in folders tend to tone one way on the obverse and one on the reverse because of different levels of exposure to air and different exposure to paper/cardboard? Here is a close up picture of the top of the coin. Notice the criss cross pattern near the top of the cap - also - how do you explain perfectly parallel fingerprint marks? Thanks,

Frank

stman

Gilbert, It's a 1886p pcgsms64.

Sorry Frank didn't mean to go off topic of your thread. I'll shut up now.

FC57Coins

No prob stman - nice coins are always welcome on my threads

Dog97

Thanks TomB! That's an original bagger for sure. I might be non-lovely but as far as original toned Morgans go I like it.

stman asks: "But also a while back you used to call album tone and envelope tone "original". What happened?"
Well stman a Morgan with album & envelope might be original in that it's not blatant AT but admit it, how were Morgans original stored? An album or envelope toned Morgan has been removed from it's original holder and stored someplace else therefore it's not original. Of course unless it's a Proof Morgan then that changes because Proofs were issued in paper envelopes.

Forgive me for being sloppy but I didn't want to get in a big argument every time a member posted an album toned Morgan, especially one in a PCGS or NGC slab, over it's "originality."

For the record I have no problem with album toners and some of them are really pretty. Some of my most favorite toned Morgans in my collection have peripheral bullseye target tone from an album and some are in slabs but my old grumpy hardcore self still refuses to call them "original" but I prefer a nice bullseye over a purple monster any day.

stman that's a hard call on your 81-S because it looks like Dansco or Harco tone because it goes from the rim inward but it probably was sticking out from between 2 coins and the edge was against the bag so the tone moved inward. If the other 2 coins were not perfectly flat then the crescent wouldn't be clearly defined.

Placid

Do you like the coin? How does it look in person?
I agree the lines seem too straight to be fingerprints or someone had a really big finger.

Dog97

Opps stman I called your 86 an 81-S.
FC57Coins look at how the prints are at the top of the obv & the bottom of the rev. There are still at the same "end" of the coin so it was held between a thumb & forefinger. Look at the lines in your prints on the sides of your thumb. They are pretty parrallel there. The tone is the same color on the rev as obv because in a Whitman folder both sides of the coin are in contact with paper because the holder folds over against the coins.