BVG Grading Thoughts...
The53Kid
Posts: 189
Hi,
Recently I have seen a few auctions for BVG graded cards from the 50's. In other posts I have seen comparisons between PSA and SGC or PSA and GAI, but can't remember too many BVG comments.
The sellers are touting the BVG grading as very strict! They are backing this up with the fact that very few cards of this issue have been graded 8's or 9's by BVG. Is this just because no one sends their stuff to BVG? Or is it because it is extremely hard to achieve a high grade by BVG standards?
One comment I did read said BVG was more lax with older cards, is this the consensus? Do they give older cards more of a break just because they are tougher to find? That would stink.
Thanks,
Bruce
Recently I have seen a few auctions for BVG graded cards from the 50's. In other posts I have seen comparisons between PSA and SGC or PSA and GAI, but can't remember too many BVG comments.
The sellers are touting the BVG grading as very strict! They are backing this up with the fact that very few cards of this issue have been graded 8's or 9's by BVG. Is this just because no one sends their stuff to BVG? Or is it because it is extremely hard to achieve a high grade by BVG standards?
One comment I did read said BVG was more lax with older cards, is this the consensus? Do they give older cards more of a break just because they are tougher to find? That would stink.
Thanks,
Bruce
Looking for:
1953 Topps in PSA 8
1941 Playball in PSA 8.
1952-1955 Red Man cards in 7 and 8
1950 Bowman in PSA 8
1953 Topps in PSA 8
1941 Playball in PSA 8.
1952-1955 Red Man cards in 7 and 8
1950 Bowman in PSA 8
0
Comments
I don't believe many of us vintage collectors use Beckett for grading. PSA and SGC are basically the two grading companies for us. For modern stuff, Beckett (BGS) is probably the leader. The BVG populations are likely low because nobody submits vintage cards to them. This could be easily verified by checking the populations of all grades. But I don't know if they've blended the original BGS vintage populations in with the BVG populations. If they did, that would skew the grades lower and the populations higher.
<< <i> Their answer was to introduce a more relaxed grading system which they called BVG. >>
My question is this...did someone just pay $810 for a PSA 8 Carlton RC?
1965 Topps Steve Carlton BVG 9
John
This is just another disgusting aspect of BVG.
Since hardly anyone submits vintage cards to Beckett anymore,
and since the BVGs are chucked in with the previously graded BGSs in the pop reports,
cards that once would have been graded 7 or 8 by BGS,
now become "one of one" BVG 9s.
Pity the fools paying SMR 9 prices for these cards,
and a plague of locusts upon the sellers who misrepresent the cards as such,
for these sellers are actually no better than the crooks selling PRO graded cards while quoting SMR prices and PSA pops.
"How about a little fire Scarecrow ?"
LOL So tell us how you really feel!
It's easy to have a low pop card when yours is the only one ever submitted!
The "stricter grading" hype by sellers is just that, pure hype. They all have a great future in pitching the "Miracle Mop" or some horribly overpriced cleaner on TV.
Beckett doesn't have a clue when it comes to any pre-1980 card and as a matter of avoiding potential problems, I don't even bid on them. At shows, if I have the opportunity of eyeballing them, then I will purchase only with the intention of a crossover.
KKBB
I have to admit, the cards I am looking at, and the Carlton posted above, do look sweet in the scans. But scans can only show you so much. So I think I will also go with the plan of buying them at shows where I can "eyeball" the details. So far I am strictly PSA.
On a side note...I guess I should update my profile so everyone knows what I'm looking for. But as you can guess by the ID and logo, 53 Topps are my game. If it's a 53 and a PSA 8 on ebay, it's on my radar.
Off to Philly tomorrow to see what it's like...haven't been to a BIG show in years...I know the big dealers will be there, just hope they are willing to deal. But mostly I just want to see alot of hi grade inventory in one spot.
1953 Topps in PSA 8
1941 Playball in PSA 8.
1952-1955 Red Man cards in 7 and 8
1950 Bowman in PSA 8
Welcome to the boards, and don't be a stranger
<< <i>The last Beckett graded card I owned was a BGS 52 Large Halas, which I had regraded as BVG (just one of their gimmicks, one card that me and someone else paid twice to grade). Anyway, they never adjusted the pop, so now it looks like they have graded more than they have. One thing is for sure, there are three types now-a-days. The BVG/BGS collector only, the PSA only Collector, and the PSA/BVG collector. I try to stick with PSA. >>
KKBB,
What was the BGS grade originally
and what did it end up with from
the regrade at BVG?
(include subgrades if you have them)
this would show exactly how they
"lower their standards" for BVG.
~jeff
I will never get a card graded by either BGS or BVG. I'm sitting on two free submissions to BGS, anyone want them in trade?
I hope PSA never goes this route, otherwise, I'm dumping my PSA's.
Mark
....just like any BVG slabbed card which happens to be graded correctly, which by most accounts is the exception, rather than the rule. All the major graders make an occassional mistake, none are perfect, but BVG while true or not, has a perception of lax standards for vintage. Like Gemmint said prior, most vintage collectors prefer PSA and can live with SGC. Beckett produces a great magazine, but they virtually admitted they did not really know how to grade vintage cards and started BVG to " fix " that situation. They also have added BCCG for high volume modern grading, maybe vintage too. All these levels makes one wonder. I am pretty sure I would buy a needed card graded by BVG only in person or via a scan from a seller with a good retun policy.
With the Halas, I sent back 11 other BGS 8.5s have them redone as BVG. All 11 came back the same grade.
Prior to this I emailed them to see about how much a grade would change. They responded that the graded would change on average 1 point per card. While I wan't expecting a bunch of 9.5s, I was surprised. My experieince has been they change an average of .04 points. (.5 points over 12 cards).
Maybe they were overgrades to begin with, I don't know, I now only work with PSA and really haven't looked back. And have been very very happy.
KKBB
when you had these regrades done
did you send the card IN the slab or
take it out and resubmitt it??
I think that you would have been more
likely to get an increase in grade if you
craked the slab and resubmitted them.
since they would not be influenced by
the previous grade.
I hope I never have to deal with another company deciding that the way things were done were wrong and now lets try it again so we can double grading few on the same cards mentality (hint hint PSA).
Thanks BKAH - if I ever find myself in that place again, I will break them out.
KKBB
Their grading is somewhat laxer -- but there are differences between all of the major grading companies in how grades are assessed.
MS
Though I agree with you (not knowing which dealer you are talking about here) -- I would surmise that a large percentage of cards that PSA grades as "Evidence of trimming" end up being re-submitted to other grading companies -- often until they end up in some holder.
Also remember -- if PSA says "evidence of trimming" once, it may not necessarily be so -- they would rather grade an authentic card as trimmed than grade a trimmed card as authentic. There is some success rate >0 of re-submitting cards to PSA that have received the "Trimmed" designation the first time around.
MS
Mickey C., in answer to your question, "I will never get a card graded by either BGS or BVG. I'm sitting on two free submissions to BGS, anyone want them in trade?"
Will you take FOUR free submissions to BGS in exchange for your TWO?