GIVE THE REASON EVERY COIN DOES NOT CROSS
wondercoin
Posts: 16,977 ✭✭✭✭✭
On crossovers, the grading services should state the reason why every coin does not cross. This can easily be done by attaching a tiny sticker with a # on it (such as DNC #1 or DNC #2) when the coin is returned. The numbers would corrolate to the reasons the coins failed. For example, here is a sampling of what the sticker #'s would stand for (these numbered reasons would be published so collectors and dealers could easily compare their DNC # to the list of reasons) :
1. DNC#1: Coin failed to meet the grade requirements
2. DNC#2: Coin failed to meet the designation requirements
3. DNC#3: Coin is believed to be AT
4. DNC#1,2: Coin failed to meet grade and designation requirements.
Other explanations could also be added. What do you think?
Wondercoin
1. DNC#1: Coin failed to meet the grade requirements
2. DNC#2: Coin failed to meet the designation requirements
3. DNC#3: Coin is believed to be AT
4. DNC#1,2: Coin failed to meet grade and designation requirements.
Other explanations could also be added. What do you think?
Wondercoin Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
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Comments
Here's a warning parable for coin collectors...
Don't forget "At what grade will the coin cross"
That would give the submitter a choice !!!!!
Stewart
That brings up an interesting thought. Let's say you request a grade of MS65 but you're told your coin is MS64. If you change your mind later, and want to cross the coin as MS64, could you use the rejection opinion as a grade guarantee? Probably not, just thinking out loud.
It would remove the unknown when deciding whether to "resubmit". Unless of course there were reasons it wouldn't be graded at all.
i would also
add that grading is an art not a science and that with the human factor and the bisuness end factor nothing is for sure and it is in a state of flux
and for me whatever the reason political or whatever that is the companies right to do so it is not a life or death thing it is not life or death for a coin to be put into a pcgs holder pcgs can do whatever they want to if customers do not like it they can go somewhere else
also
it is a grading service not a school for teaching
it would be nice to give reasons but then you open up an even greater can of worms also the reasons may be politics so how do you tell that? you just make everyone more upset! it is not right or wrong or good or bad just business and if you do not like it then voice your dissatisfaction with your feet and pocketbook and go somewhere else!
the market seems to react to that
sincerely michael
I was caught in this trap for my first 10 or so submissions. Read the form -- it is ambigious at best. I called PCGS and they admitted to this fact. From then on, I specified "Poor 1" as my minimum grade.
Why would PCGS want to go to the trouble of telling you why a coin did not cross. From Sandy herself: "PCGS doesn't owe you any explanation for a coin that DNC."
www.AlanBestBuys.com
www.VegasBestBuys.com
This really should be considered just like a coin submitted for grade. It would be one thing if the graders looked at the grade on the existing holder and then gave it a thumbs up or thumbs down. But, as I understand the process, they are actually required to grade the coin without knowing the existing grade. Later, the consensus grade is compared to the grade on the existing holder and if it the same or higher, it cross, otherwise it doesn't. Since they've gone to all the trouble to actually determine the grade and designation (or not due to a reason AT, etc.) it shouldn't be much trouble to just tell the submitter the grade, designation or no grade reason. In other words, to follow the same process as for a raw coin.
Ideally, the grade opinion we pay for would be something that we could pass along with the coin. I'd like to see it on a cert that references the existing holder and number. That way if I have an coin in an ICG MS 67 holder I can also display a PCGS cert with it that indicates in PCGS's opinion the coin is a MS 66, for example.
However, I am willing to take baby steps to improvement here, if it is in the right direction. Just knowing would be nice. Even if it just a tiny sticker with the handwritten grade.
WH
WHAT AN OUTRAGE !!! Why should they want to go to the trouble? Why DO they in fact owe you an explanation? BECAUSE YOU ARE PAYING THEM FOR THEIR SERVICES !!!! YOU are the customer. THEY are supposed to be providing SERVICE. THAT'S WHY. And if they don't maybe others (hear me NGC ?) will.
Sunnywood
Sunnywood's Rainbow-Toned Morgans (Retired)
Sunnywood's Barber Quarters (Retired)
Geb: pls tell us the source of that quote. I'd like to take that to DHall, and would like to have any supporting evidence.
EVP
How does one get a hater to stop hating?
I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com
Sandy would NEVER say that.I will say that statement is TOTAL B.S.Sandy has ALWAYS helped me in every way imaginable as well as told me at which grade a coin will cross.She is the BEST
Shame on you for lying !!!
Stewart
Back when I was stupid and unaware that PCGS would not cross over MS70 coins from other services because the edge cannot be examined in the slab, I sent about 20 ICG MS70's to be crossed. Not only did I receive a courteous letter from PCGS when they returned the coins, explaining why they could not cross the coins over, but one of the graders had attached small stickers with handwritten notes to many of the slabs pointing out specific microscopic flaws that would have prevented a grade of MS70 even if the coins had been cracked out. I really appreciated that, as I now am much more aware of what to look for in deciding if a coin warrants submission.
However, it seems unlikely that PCGS would be willing to go into that much detail for all unsuccessful crossover submissions. They can be quite closed-mouthed at times. On one occasion I returned a coin that they had graded MS69, asking them to point out what specifically had kept it from MS70 because I could find no flaws whatsoever under high magnification and it had a better strike and luster that the MS70 specimen I had of the same coin. In this instance they simply returned the coin to me without comment--very frustrating.
Dell
Let me state exactly what happened. I submitted several coins (FYI: NCG and ICG graded coins) and none of them crossed. For several of the coins I listed a minimum grade that was two levels below the level they were encapsulated at. The others I listed no minimum grade, intending that there be no minimum grade at which they were to cross. After getting the coins back, I called PCGS and asked for Sandy at someone's suggestion on this board. I first asked Sandy, why the coins didn't cross. Her response, "PCGS doesn't owe you any explanation for a coin that DNC." I then said, "Oh, are you saying that PCGS believes there is something wrong with all of these coins?" She said no, they may not have met the minimum grade. I said sure, but most of the coins had no minimum grade. She then asked what I put on the form. I told her I left the minimum grade blank because I had no minimum grade. She then told me that PCGS interprets a blank minimum grade as cross only at the currently encapsulated grade or higher. We then got into a heated discussion exactly what was in the form's instructions. In the end, she agreed that the form was ambiguous and that the instructions needed to be changed (I guess PCGS hasn't got around to it). I then told her that if the coins were not graded at my specifications, I wanted my money back. She told me no, PCGS does not return money but that she would check and call me back for a resubmission. Guess what? No call ever came.
Oh and here's another thing she told me. I asked whether it would be advisable to just put "Encapsulate at any grade on the form." (I remembered this after thinking about Alan's comments above). She said no, that would not be sufficient. Apparently someone needs a number to enter the coins into their computer system. I guess their clerks are complete morons.
I'll locate the invoice number when I get home tonight and post it. I'm sorry I don't any more proof of the conversation. I don't really care if you don't believe me! It happened.
Gary.
You've got to tell them something or they're left hanging out.
Imagine the anger of a submitter who had the above happen? At least in your case you got your coins back status quo and only need to now contend with the fees paid.
*Minimum Grade: Please use this column only if you do not want your coin encapsulated unless it meets this minimum grade or higher.
See my point.
I would recommend you submit your coins through a dealer.
I don't know of anyone else who has the same problems as you.
Customer service is the BEST.They put up with more s--- than you could imagine and somehow manage to keep on keeping on.
Stewart
I am an authorized dealer and I will submit your coins and further I will tell you how they will grade each and every coin AND
I WILL DO IT FOR FREE
Do youwant me to do anything else for you?
Stewart
Gary.
Nice to offer to help. It sounds like someone a more familiar with the system might get it done the way Gary want's.
Gary,
I've sent in only a few crossovers, usually at coin shows when PCGS staffers were there to assist. I agree there seems to be confusion, for people like us that don't regularly use their service. Hopefully, Stewart can assist and get you the service you deserve.
I just sent in my best eight NGC Standing Libs for crossing. I sent them in using my 8 free submissions for renewing my membership at the platinum level. Charlie from customer service was very helpful in showing me how to combine the two 4-coin invoices into one 8-coin invoice for a single return shipping cost.
Thanks Charlie!
Now, if David is watching, here's their chance to "skim-off" some NGC "cream"!
Seriously, I feel that these coins should cross at the same grade, and one could even gain a "FH" designation. Standing Libertys were one of the first series that I collected and, consequently, I have some in NGC holders. I'm hoping that most, if not all, of these eight cross over and join my set.
No explaination needed for those that cross!
'cept, of course, if they cross higher!
Regards,
Don
and, as always,...