I'm Disgusted

dom

I have a few sets listed in the Set Registry and some others that I actively collect that are not. Lately, I've been trying to add to them by bidding on eBay and other venues without success. My bids are strong, sometimes stronger than I would normally place. Sometimes I snipe, sometimes I don't. Yet I'm failing to win cards. Each set seems to have one bidder who wins every card I bid on. These cards are being bought seemingly to "corner" the market. The bidders must have deep pockets with which I am loathe to compete.

The Registry was a great idea at its conception. Now it has created a monster for a retired guy who merely wants to collect. It was once fun to add to a collection, trade up, watch it grow, and round itself into something of which I could be proud. The fun is gone. Are these cards the new stock market with the buyers trying to recapture the irrational exuberance of the 90's?

I'm about ready to dump collections I've assembled over decades, but I'm smart enough not to make this kind of decision when I'm as upset as I've been lately.

On the other hand, anyone want to buy a POP 8 common for $500.00? Thanks for letting me vent.

thegemmintman

Dom, try to relax. Here's what you need to do:

1) Go to the race track.

2) Win lots of cash.

3) Come home and hide winnings from Mrs. Dom.

4) Start bidding with wreckless fervor and abandon.

5) Add winning cards to sets.

6) Repeat above steps.


I hope that was helpful to you, and I'm not entirely kidding about it.

thegemmintman

BTW, the rest of you should not try this at home or at the track. Dom is a seasoned handicapper and can handle himself well.

cfunkho

Dom --

I feel your pain. I know, for example, of people who have multiple sets of the same year on the Registry, yet who still outbid me on cards from that year--even cards that are 6's or 7's.

On the other hand, those prices often are lower than the prices I see listed at dealer web sites. So maybe there are people (those who don't know about eBay?) who are willing to pay even more outrageous prices?

Wow. Pretty negative for my first post. But you struck a nerve.

Chris

mikeschmidt

Dom:

Sometimes this hobby truly serves you a piece of humble pie. Sorry to hear it. With the proliferation of high-profile athletes, lawyers, stock brokers, etc. that share our hobby with us, it forces each of us to examine our expectations and whether or not they are truly realistic.

If a PSA 7 common can be had for $40, but the PSA 8 will set you back $500, perhaps it is worthwhile to consider whether or not the PSA 7 is *that* much worse. Also, as time goes on, perhaps populations will increase and the prices will drop. Heck -- some of our board members greatly increase their collections by taking advantage of high-paying buyers who want the low population commons.

Give it time -- I promise I won't snipe you for $500 on Omar Moreno when his 1984 PSA card shows up on Ebay....

RobE

<< <i>Dom, try to relax. Here's what you need to do:

1) Go to the race track.

2) Win lots of cash.

3) Come home and hide winnings from Mrs. Dom.

4) Start bidding with wreckless fervor and abandon.

5) Add winning cards to sets.

6) Repeat above steps.I hope that was helpful to you, and I'm not entirely kidding about it.

>>




GMM whats going to happen to you if you go to the National in AC next year?

Dom,Looking at your sig line hopefully you will find someone who you can deal with direct or team up with and aviod ebay for certain things?I know you already thought about this or probably do so.

Best of luck in finding what your sig says your looking for too & nice 84 Set there.

Rob

crazysc

It's a double edged sword - everyone loves to see the values go up on what they have, but the downside is it becomes more expensive to complete the collection. And isn't anyone who's collecting a set in high grade, at least somewhat conscious of the value of their investment?

Kind of like the stories you hear of someone living in a development where the land values go up so dramatically that they can no longer afford the property taxes. On one hand, it's sad that someone has to change locals for such a reason - on the other hand, many people would love to have the problem that their property value has increased three fold...

brucemo

Everyone either runs out of money, gets bored, or finishes their set eventually. I'm willing to let some people pay big bucks for stuff and go away. Maybe they'll sell the stuff to me eventually, for what I am willing to pay.

I passed on a low-pop '56 Topps PSA-7 common today. It was close to two hundred bucks. I'll get one eventually. Meanwhile, slow and steady gets me 336/354 of the way there without getting too crazy yet.

If it's old stuff that doesn't exist, because there isn't any, like pre-war stuff, you are hosed. You either have to pay or you can't get it.

If it's new stuff that doesn't exist, because nobody is crazy enough to send it in, you should be sending it in yourself.

If it's old stuff that comes up regularly, just be patient.

bruce

LuxuryWines

Dom,

1.) Set a budget ...

2.) Bid within your budget....

3.) Be happy when you win

4.) Find a way to vent your frustration when somebody outbids you!

mcastaldi

Dom> A few things to keep in mind.

1) The newer the set, the more to ignore one or two crazy collectors/bidders. With anything after say 1975, over time production numbers and populations will eliminate the issues you mention. Especially with your 84D set, there's so much unopened stuff still
out there it may take time but you WILL find the Moreno and Hernandez in PSA10.

2) One bidder/collector can try to "corner the market", but ultimately they will want to sell. If they're paying such outrageous sums for individual cards, I can't imagine they'd be able to turn a profit - especially when you consider the population increases that happen between the time they buy and when they sell.

3) One way to insulate yourself from this problem is to beat the bushes for cards to submit yourself. Obviously, factors such as where you live, ability to get to shows, and the years you collect will make this easier or harder.

To give you an example with the 1975 set. . .there's one collector who's been willing to pay very high prices for 1975s. So. . .a few months ago, I started tracking his eBay purchases. I tracked about 72 cards - about 10% PSA9 and 90% PSA8 - and discovered he was into them for better than $30 per card. And you know what. . .I think that's great. If he's willing to pay that, then more power to him. Maybe if I was building a set from the 50s or 60s, I wouldn't have such a cavalier attitude. But for 1970s and later issues, I think we've just started to see what's available out there. So the populations won't do anything but go up. So anything I need will be there eventually.

Don't let one or two people who bid stupidly get to you.

Mike

brucemo

If one crazy person bids $100 for a card that books for a fraction of that, maybe two other people will send one in.

bruce

KING KELLOGG

dom...

Sometimes you just have to say "goodbye" to a deal.

I'll echo what the other board members said....Submit your own!!

In fact, I just bought a run of Donruss baseball factory sets (1981-1990), and I'll send you the '84 set (minus about 20 star cards) just for the shipping charge (about $4). There are about 640 GEM MINT cards for you to look at and hone your skills on grading...... Take a break from ebay and try your hand at making your own submissions!.......

All 'ya got to do is tell me and I'll send 'em out...


It's GOOD to vent.......It's BETTER to stay on the Registry.......It's BEST to enjoy your collection....It's PRICELESS to build a truly fine set in a lifetime!





Take care,

Larry

thegemmintman

Luxury - my 6 easy steps to card heaven are more fun than your 4 steps .




<< <i>GMM whats going to happen to you if you go to the National in AC next year? >>



Oh I can handle myself in a casino RobE .

theBobs

<< <i>On one hand, it's sad that someone has to change locals for such a reason - on the other hand, many people would love to have the problem that their property value has increased three fold... >>


Its bizarre, but this is the exact analogy that I first thought of when reading the initial post. Nicely done Sol.

Buckwheat

A little devil's advocate here:

Why is it any more ridiculous to pay $500 for a penny card than $100. Who says what the "right" value is?? SMR??? Beckett??? How about the market.......

Dom, you may think that people are paying ridiculous prices, and in my opinion, many are. but I have also noticed over the past 18 months that the low pop cards keep going up in value. A PSA 8 that went for a ridiculous $100 12 months ago, now goes for a ridiculous $250 now with 2-3X the pop.

If PSA 8's are too high, how about a PSA 7? Is there really that much difference between the cards? No, the major difference is the grade on the holder. So, is someone who refuses to settle for a 7 really into collecting cards, or collecting PSA 8's??

I have some of the same emotions as you, Dom, when I try to buy 1961 PSA 9's that today go for 3X what they did last year, and 5X or more of SMR even for moderate pop cards. Maybe the bidders have more money than sense. Maybe, though, it just means that there are more collectors going after a small number of cards. That is good for the hobby. People thought that Marshall Fogel was crazy when he paid high prices for PSA 10 Mantles a few years ago. Now it is worth many times more.

Again, we are dealing with cheap cardboard here. The only value that exists for these cards is the fact that people will pay for scarcity to have "the best". Offer any noncollector the same card in PSA 6 for $5, Psa 7 for $10, PSA8 for $50, PSA 9 for $250, and PSA 10 for $2000, and they will probably tell you that none are even worth the $5, but if they had to buy one, there isn't enough of a difference between them to even begin to justify the price.

So what is really going on is that someone thinks the value of a card is more than you do. I don't think anyone is trying to corner the market. But I often buy cards that I already have if I think the card is selling at a price below market value. I usually end up selling it for more, and the higher the price and the lower the pop, the faster it sells. I can't give away pop 30 PSA 8's, but I can sell a pop 10 PSA8 for 5X SMR in a heartbeat. Just as beauty is in the eye of the beholder, so is the value of a baseball card. It is nothing to lose any sleep over.

JH

Dom

Sorry to hear the card wars have got you down. I know the feeling, although for the last couple of years, I've probably been on the giving end more than the receiving.

One possible solution is to just walk away from it for a month or so. This is already a busy time of year for most people. Maybe you could use the break. There will always be more cards later.

If you do take a break, and there are some cards you absolutely wouldn't want to miss the opportunity on, just give me a list and your limits, and I'll take care of the rest...

You know that long term, you enjoy this too much to give it up, but there are times when we can all use a break. I took one for about three years in the mid-90's, after most of my collection was stolen, but eventually I got back into it. I enjoy it too much too stay away.

If there is anything I can do to help, feel free to ask.

Jim

brucemo

Some of this stuff is destined to keep going up, and some of it is going to come down. A big factor is how much more is waiting to go in. Some of the modern stuff, there is obviously a ton of this, so the low-pops will eventually become high pops. The older stuff is a matter of understanding how much is out there. I never would have guessed that '53 Bowman B&W is as rare as it is -- it basically doesn't exist. Other stuff there is quite a bit of, so if you are patient, stuff comes around. I guess now it's a matter of whether the new stuff will found faster than new collectors are added. A pop 2 card cost a lot now, but if four more are found in the next year, it won't cost any less then, if twenty new people also start dumping money on the set.

bruce

wolfbear

Here's a simple philosophy / rationalization that works for me :

If I win a card :
Ha ! I was smart enough to realize the value of that card and I bid enough to win it.

If I DON'T win a card :
Ha ! I was smart enough not to bid more than that card was worth.
I'll pick it up cheaper later on, and look at the money I've saved.

If you know what you're willing to spend on any given card,
you never really lose it ...
you just prolong the enjoyment of attempting to obtain it at a reasonable price.

Stump

Dom

Hang in there. These guys are right. Be patient. Your time will come and you win the bids for alot lower than you think. King Kellogg is right. Take him up on his offer. Try some submissions. When you get a ten you will be thrilled. I know I was when I got my first one and just as thrilled when I got more. You never know maybe because there are Diamond KINGS you may get a little something for the morning time.


Dave

FB

God Wolfbear!!!

Thats downright poetic!!!! And I follow the same ideology!!! Whatever the outcome - my decision was the right one and I'll get it cheaper or find a better example next time round!

Dom,

I think that we've all been where you are from time to time. I gave up my #1 spot on the 1970 Topps Registry because the prices had climbed beyond what I thought was reasonable. I still pick up cards for that set on eBay, but only the ones that stay in my price range. I also found that if I feel victimized by ridiculous prices, the next time I get a Pop 1 of 1 PSA 9 back from PSA from one of the 60's sets, that I post it on eBay and sell it for $250 - $300. That usually calms my nerves a bit and I'll look to buy it back when its a Pop of 7 or 8.

If it makes you feel any better... The only 84 Donruss PSA 9's or 10's that I've purchased on eBay over the last year have been ones where I didn't see "dommydoodle" on the bid list. I figure that its "Your" set and I'll wait till you get yours before I go for mine.

We all feel the way that you do from time to time Dom. Just got to sit down, have a beer and figure out what the next move is.

theBobs

<< <i>Just got to sit down, have a beer and figure out what the next move is. >>

This works in most situations.

RobBobGolf

Gem Mint had it right. I buy all my cards with MDK money, and don't care how much I spend sometimes. I think its ok to spend too much for a card or pack, if you KNOW you are spending too much. It is a completely different situation when an idiot runs up the price and has no idea what he is doing.

RobBob


MDK= Momma Don't Know

boggs301012

Dom

Patience is what I have learned, A 1990 psa 10 leaf card I wanted went for 140.00 (about) I waited the next 60.00 ..the next 45 ...the next???? But that is when I will buy. Sure I could have bought the 140 but I am willing to wait it out. Just my 2 cents I could be wrong but we all see this trend sooner or later. Now some of you know why I collect Boggs , he is very over looked!!! I am almost alone.


James

dude

I agree with most of what has been said so far. I've been in this situation too (and still am to a lesser degree). I really don't know the specifics, but one thing that I've done in situations where people are paying crazy prices towards building sets is to sell them my cards that they need. I love my cards, but if someone is willing to pay triple market value for a card, then by all means I'll sell it to them directly. I did this with my '68 set and it set me back about a year in progress, but it put a ton of money in wallet and I got most of the cards back for a tiny fraction of what I sold the original ones for.

Stump

Dude is right. I bought some of those cards from him when I was trying to finish. (One card by the way and it is at PSA now and a nine is on ebay) If you want to see someone get stupid on a card watch me on the last card I need for my set. All this aside be patient and the prices will drop. On my 69 set I bid on a Roy White 5 times before I won at my set price. But I did win and did not waiver on my limit.

Dave

toppsgun

I love to see someone pay $200 for a PSA 8 pop. 4 common that "books" for $23:

(a) especially when I'm the seller and I've got a high end PSA 7 that works just fine, or
(b) especially when I'm the buyer and I'm one of 4 people in the world that has this card.

So what's to be disgusted about? I'm a genius in both situations.

As for the "have a beer" comment, I always thought wine was much more civilized. If most of the people on this board are beer drinkers, I need to lower my listing price on ebay or else I'll never sell these cards.

dude

Stump,

I wasn't referring to you. I sold a bunch of cards to someone else and for a lot more than I would ever dream of selling to you.

ejguru

Dude--

Must be me then.....

EJ

Stump

Dude I know you gave me fair prices and excellent service. I was trying to help your point.
Eric I see your making a move in the 68's I am almost done

Dave

robstar

I have learned that patience pays huge dividends in this hobby. From time to time fly by night collectors jump on board for a short time and create surges in prices realized. I agree with Dan, sell them your cards and reap the benefits later. Don't compete with uneducated collectors with fat wallets.

Rob...

BugOnTheRug

Hey Dom,
I know you actively collect several sets, and you, like me, really enjoy the 84D set. But for various reasons, some of which you have noted, I'm holding back on grading in favor of raw and the intense pursuing of the remaining cards in this set (and others.): Reasons?

a) $25 PSA 10 commons by Rushoeless and others being swallowed by Sportscardman. Seems to me he'll have a 84D PSA 10 complete set at the rate he's going.
b) The ongoing saga of PSA 10 price vs. what you get for that price.
c) My raw standards for this set are very critical, especially the centering. I really enjoy a super-centered card and want my centering as close to 50-50 as possible.
d) Grading consistency: The gamble waged trying for 84D PSA 9's (worth something) vs. PSA 8's (worthLESS). Downgoesfrazier has been vocal about this and I agree.
e) I still enjoy the "feel" of a pristine raw card, carefully removed from it's sleeving and viewing it in it's "born" form. I realize the protection offered by slabbing but my slabbed cards don't give me the same thrill.
f) There are tons of 84D out there and I'll get what I need at a good price as time goes. I've become much more patient.
g) prices, prices, prices. I can't and won't get caught up in the money. If I can't get it for a fair price, I'll just wait. I know that it's more difficult with older stuff, but I think you have many friends on this board who would help you out.

Additionally, I've encountered times in the past where I got totally burned out of cards. For instance, I don't have anything beyond 1989 because I got completely sick of trying to figure out all the sets/companies/scarcities/hype/bla,bla,bla from the early 90's on. So, I do other things for awhile, then come back to it. It's happened to me about 3 or 4 times over the past 20 years.

Hang in there. I hope you don't, but if you ever come to part with your 84D, let me know. I'd be interested.

BOTR

hench1

Well Dom, if you decide to dump, I would be interested in your T205s. Just let me know!

ejguru

Trying to serve two masters (1967 and 1968) simultaneously has been an interesting challenge. I'm still chipping away at each set, with a finish hopefully after the A.C. National.

dom

Thanks Boys,

The advice is all good, especially from GMM. I'm headed to OTB in a bit...then watch out -- ha ha.

Actually, my rant was not about my 84D's which can be had, but for some vintage sets not listed on my registry. There's one guy who buys just about everything from raw to slabbed in one set and the bids can often be ridiculous. He rarely pays premiums unkess I bid, and since I generally wait until the end, his preset e-snipes must be sky high on everything because I don't give away my hand. Frustrating, to say the least, and I'm not going to bid on things I don't need just to jack him up. With this guy, patience ain't gonna work. Seems like a no win situation.

Thanks for all the pick-me-ups.