What Qualifies a Grader to the rank of Expert?

MrKelso

Has the question ever been answered as to what qualifications a grader must hold to be considered an expert grader?

coppercoins

My question would be, "What's so hard about grading coins?" You learn the series, learn how to detect problem coins, and take it from there.

airplanenut

They need the willpower to break your heart day in and day out.

homerunhall

At PCGS we've tested over 300 graders, most of them dealers...and we've had probably 40 to 50 graders work at PCGS during the last 17 years. You may be interested to know that I feel grading coins is much harder than grading sportscards or stamps. We've trained people to be card graders. We've never been able to train a non-coin expert to be a coin grader. All of our graders have been experienced dealers...except Rick Montgomery and Miles Standish, two of the best. And we've only had one female grader. She worked for us for a few months about 12 years ago and was actually very good at grading silver dollars.

I feel it takes years and years of hands-on grading experience to become an "expert" grader. I would define an expert grader as someone who is good enough at grading to either work at PCGS or make a living by submitting raw coins or crack-outs to PCGS. I feel there are less than 100 people in the world that have the level of grading expertise that would qualify as "expert"...and you'd be surprised at how many dealers are pretty clueless about grading.

David Hall

dragon

Wow!

So other than myself, there's less than 99 other people in the world like me??

dragon

coinguy1

David, you said in part " I would define an expert grader as someone who is good enough at grading to either work at PCGS or make a living by submitting raw coins or crack-outs to PCGS."

Wouldn't someone (present company excluded, of course ) who is good enough at grading to either work at NGC or make a living by submitting raw coins or crack-outs to NGC also qualify as an expert grader?

roadrunner

You also need to be able to count state quarters in your sleep and be able to show a hefty profit each month for the boss. Lawyers have to give 2500 billable hours a year and graders need to shoot for 1,000,000 coins a year.

roadrunner

Wisconsin

Wouldn't someone (present company excluded, of course ) who is good enough at grading to either work at NGC or make a living by submitting raw coins or crack-outs to NGC also qualify as an expert grader?

Good Point Mark. I would sure think so.

Russ

<< <i>...and you'd be surprised at how many dealers are pretty clueless about grading. >>



homerunhall,

I wouldn't be surprised. There are certainly plenty of clueless dealers selling coins in my series. You have one in right now that was slabbed by PCGS and sold to me by a MAJOR dealer. Ask Charlie about it.

Russ, NCNE

homerunhall

Mark...alias coinguy...you remain a pain in the butt as always. The answer to your question is of course "yes"...but I'd never admit that in a public forum.

Now leave me alone before someone asks me whether I think you're one of the 100.

David

airplanenut

David,

Is he one of the 100

Oh, and I forgot from my first post...

ursabear

First and foremost - I am not a grading expert. I have fair intuitions when viewing certain series - but just a few.

I think an expert is a complex mix of specific knowledge combined with the ability to apply general abstract coin conditions to a wide variety of coins. I look to an expert to have a firm grasp on a reasonable number of series and types - and also has the ability to apply the knowledge of those series to more unfamiliar series. The better the expert, the more series he/she has in command.

homerunhall

Jeremy...OK...I'll admit it...Mark Feld is one of the 100...just don't ask the exact rank...

coinguy1

David, precisely what would Feld's rank be?

Sincerely, anonymous

PS - I promise not to tell him what you say.

relayer

Isn't it after they make 5000 posts?

clackamas

Anyone who calls themselves an expert, is most certainly not, a little rule from Silicon valley on the "Guru". Only someone else can ever call you an expert, and the minute you start thinking you are an expert, you're no longer one. The expert is always the guy above you, who you aspire to be, and who's skills you aspire to have, essentially, there are no experts. If the guys at PCGS think they are experts then refer to previous statement, there is no way they know more than Fivaz about Lincoln cents, etc. No one is a true expert in their own eyes, only in others eyes. The basic assumption is that no one person can be more knowledgeable than everyone else in the same field. The more you know about a subject, the more you find out what you don't know.

Try to know your field as much as possible but always know that someone else can ALWAYS teach you something new. Why do you think elite olympic athletes still have coaches?



Brian

airplanenut

<< <i>Jeremy...OK...I'll admit it...Mark Feld is one of the 100...just don't ask the exact rank... >>

What is the exacteth ranketh?

dorkkarl

mr. hall, please correct me if i'm wrong. "grading" at your company is essentially a comparison process, whereby the coin being graded is compared to an existing reference set, is it not? i'd consider an expert 1 who consistently grades w/out the crutch of comparison examples. but the bottom line for me is that grading is really establishing a coin's value relative to other examples from the same series. so i guess the TRUE expert for me is the dealer who can price coins just right, regardless of what the alleged "Grade" is.

make sense?

K S

Russ

<< <i>whereby the coin being graded is compared to an existing reference set, is it not? >>



Karl,

I could be wrong (wouldn't be the first time), but my assumption is that the reference set is just that; a "reference". Like all references, it would only be referred to when necessary. I doubt that it is used during day-to-day grading.

Russ, NCNE

Johnscoin

The first time I took the Advanced Grading Course at the ANA Seminar, it was taught by Keith Love, Len Albrecht (I think), Don Bonser, maybe Mary Sauvain, and someone else from PCGS I think...
One of the graders said that they had a requirement to examine the reference set weekly if not daily, to refresh themselves. I'm not saying they grade the coins by referring to the set, but I believe that the reference set is used more often that we may think...

mr1931S

the only coins i don't know how to grade are rainbow-toned $10 Indian gold pieces...

TheNumish

The very best graders can make more trading coins than working for either PCGS or NGC. PCGS does have some competent people working there but they are not the best in the business. I don't know if it's true or false but there is a percieved perception that PCGS thinks they are the one Coin God and nothing anyone else says is worth the oxygen spent to say it. In the past they haven't done much to change this attitude. An example is on three different occasions I've sent coins to PCGS damage control and had the coins returned to me with no explanation. That was a big F YOU and I spend thousands a month on grading coins. Anyway I must say David Hall coming on these forums has done a lot to change my perception and I really appreciate it. I'm still skeptical but that's just my nature.

I do think there are more than 100 people out there making a living buying coins, grading them and then reselling them. If it was so hard to do NGC and PCGS wouldn't have months where they grade 100,000 coins and it wouldn't pay for them to grade coins at shows.

shirohniichan

The more you know about a subject, the more you find out what you don't know.

Yea, verily.

wayneme

Question for Dave
OK I know this is a little of subject and I have asked this before
but not to Dave so here goes I have been collecting coins since 1979
I have every penny every 1976 quarter every half dollar every state
quarter every silver coin and every dollar I have touched or owned since 1979
I have mint sets 1957 1958 61 thru 64 10- 1987
10 uncirulated in 88 and 87 20- 1988 s mints set 1988 gold statue liberty
1988 one 1865 three cent nickel silver
5 or Constitution silver proofs silver dollars 1886-0 1896-0
i have 50 or 60 gold coins I just sent 8 coins in to pgcs
1839-0 2 1/2
and way the list goes on
my question for Dave what is the best way in your opinion to sell a few coins
at the best price thanks

dorkkarl

i'd like to borrow their reference set of bust dollars....

K S

jom

<< <i>The more you know about a subject, the more you find out what you don't know. >>



Which means I know absolutely nothing about everything or everything about absolutely nothing.

jom