What does it mean when the same coin gets sold on Teletrade multiple times?

Russ

PCGS PR66DCAM Accented Hair sold for $1150 on 9/16

PCGS PR66DCAM Accented Hair sold for $975 on 10/30

PCGS PR66DCAM Accented Hair listed again for 12/4

Does this mean that the seller bought it themselves in the previous auctions? I've seen several examples of this on Teletrade.

Russ, NCNE

BigD5

Or the coin could have been returned.

keithdagen

Coin was repurchased by the seller and then relisted, or the coin was bought and returned. A lot of people think that the first happens a lot in the high-end modern market, as a seller can actively bid on their pieces and when they win it, pay buyer's and seller's fees and establish a "sale" of the coin.

Russ

Ah, forgot about returns. Looking at this coin, my hunch is that's what happened.

Russ, NCNE

DHeath

Russ,

Best guess, buyback, hoping to bump or create a market.

Mark

Russ:

When you look at that coin, what do you see that suggests to you it was returned? Is the cameo a little thin on the check and/or the eagle's rump feathers or what?

Thanks in advance.

Mark

Russ

Mark,

Three things. First, I don't believe the coin is actually a DCAM; it has far too many prominent frost breaks. Second, the strike is very weak. Finally, there appears to be a rather nasty milk spot lodged in the 4 of the date and two on his cheek.

Russ, NCNE

Mark

Russ:

Is the coin not a DCAM because the frost is weak on Kennedy's check and the eagle's shield? Though I do not collect DCAMs, am I correct in presuming that it is these characteristics that preclude the DCAM grade?

What are you looking for as far as the strike? Keep in mind that I don't collect Kennedies, but might one example of the weak strike be the weak upper right part of the shield?

Re the milk spot in the 4--I thought that might be some "misplaced" cameo frost that appeared in the 4. Can the frost get carried into an area such as the triangle in the 4?

Once again, thanks in advance.

Mark

roadrunner

Teletrade will remove the price realized from their data base if the coin was returned. I think they do the same if its bought back. So if a price is getting listed each time it seems plausible that the coin is owned by the house or by a seller who is given this extra priviledge to establish a "price" for the coin....even if it didn't sell. It's not unusual for a coin to be relisted 6-10 times in a year even though
TT indicates they pull dupes after 3 returns. This is definitely not the case though. I recall one 1890 seated quarter in MS68 that was put up and returned at least 6 times. It had a monster sized divot in one field but other than that was superb with great eye appeal.
Looked more like a 66 coin. The divot was never mentioned once in any description.

roadrunner

Russ

<< <i>Is the coin not a DCAM because the frost is weak on Kennedy's check and the eagle's shield? >>



That, and quite a bit of the lettering.



<< <i>Though I do not collect DCAMs, am I correct in presuming that it is these characteristics that preclude the DCAM grade? >>



In my opinion, yes.



<< <i>What are you looking for as far as the strike? Keep in mind that I don't collect Kennedies, but might one example of the weak strike be the weak upper right part of the shield? >>



I'm looking at the lack of hair detail on the upper part of the head. On a well struck coin, the wishbone of an Accented Hair should be very obvious. On this coin it is barely detectable.



<< <i>Re the milk spot in the 4--I thought that might be some "misplaced" cameo frost that appeared in the 4. Can the frost get carried into an area such as the triangle in the 4? >>



Field frost can appear in that area, but I don't believe that is the case with this coin. The spot is too "fat", for lack of a better word, and the color indicates milk spot toning.

Russ, NCNE

misterR

This has happened quite often to me. This is a recent example of a coin I sold. No, I did not buy the coin back, it was returned by the winning bidder and no reason has to be given. Here is the coin I am talking about 1984-D PCGS 67 Kennedy Half. The winning bidder had to pay approximately $70 in return fees. The coin will be sold again, maybe they think they can get the coin a lot cheaper the next time? Maybe they got carried away while bidding? In the past the coin returned usually sells for less the next time, do the bidders think that the coin has a problem? Do the bidders think that there are more of these out there than the one? The only way I can protect myself is to place a high enough reserve bid so that the coin will not be sold at a ridiculusly low price.

wayneherndon

I think these are the possibilities:

A. Did not surpass opening bid--Teletrade sets an opening bid on coins. Sometimes this seems random and is occasionally way high. If there is no bid, the coin is unsold and Teletrade lists it in the next available auction (usually about 3-4 weeks since catalogs are printed in advance, etc.). In this case, the lot disappears from the online history. It won't appear as a sale as the ones you list do.

B. Return--the coin sold and the buyer did not like it and returned it. After one return, they will relist it. Usually, this is 5-6 weeks later since it has to make a round trip to the buyer who also had to send in payment. Teletrade may reauction it after additional returns or they may return it to the consignor.

C. Buyback (consignor's reserve)--The consignor could have bought the coin back either intentionally or unintentionally via his reserve. If intentionally, it would be a bit odd to see the coin in another auction so soon. If intentionally via the reserve, the coin is returned to the seller who would then have to reconsign it. So, you'd expect the 5-6 week interval at the least. Note: with the partnership TT has with the grading services you often see people consign coins for grading and auction who then buy back one or two if the decide they want it for their collections after seeing the grade.

D. Buyer's remorse--you could have had a legit sale to a buyer who kept it a little while and then decided to consign it for sale. Again, the shorter the time frame the stranger this scenario is.

I think this has to be a case of double B. Usually when this happens the price drops down as one bidder has dropped out. I have been the underbidder on several coins I thought might cross/upgrade and helped bid them way up. Then a few weeks later, I'd see the same coin back. At that point I figured it didn't cross/upgrade or the prior buyer was skeptical. So in addition to the original buyer dropping out of the bidding, so did I and the second sale was for far less in each case.

WH

Mark

Russ:

Thanks for the information.

Mark

roadrunner

Buyer's remorse comes into play a lot. Or maybe you could call it auction fever. You just have to win the lot and feel proud to have
"won".....that is until you get the coin and realize it's not what you expected. Off it goes, back to TT. And when reauctioned the sharp buyers see it as "damaged goods" and often bid lower or not at all.

roadrunner

kyleknap

My experience with other online auction companies and seeing coins again and again in auctions has taught me that, if this is the case, the coin does not look like the image. I have gone through this myself. I buy a coin from an online sale, and it looks horrible compared ot the online pic. So, knowing it will appear as it did when i bought it if I consign it back to that firm; I usually hold it for a while depending on the market, and put it back in one of that company's sales.

One of the most common ways for a coin to NOT look like the image occurs when a proof coin, or DMPL Morgan, looks very nicely cameod in the pic but has little contrast in person.

Kyle