A new, thought-provoking ethics question...

airplanenut

You are a dealer (or yourself... doesn't matter)... you buy someone's lot of silver at junk price... maybe 2.5x face like most dealers... maybe a bit more...

You get bored one day and begin searching it... you find a key date in great condition- it is worth FAR MORE than you paid for the entire lot...

Do you:
a- call the seller, you didn't realize the contents
b- sell it, you're a rich man
c- keep it- woohoo!
d- none of the above... write in your answer...

Why?

Jeremy

Paultjuno

Me, If I bought it from a dealer. Pick either b or c .... they should be aware of what they're doing.
If it's purchased from someone who isn't familiar with the trade .... I would have to pick a. Look money is great, but I would rather have a good reputation and be able to sleep at night.

Russ

If I bought the lot from a dealer, tough beans for him.

If I bought it from the little old lady selling the dead husbands coins, I'd split the windfall with her.

Russ, NCNE

KlectorKid

I would sell it, im a type collector i dont need key dates.... unless it was highest graded of all dates than i would keep it

Outhaul

I'd have to go along with Russ on that one.

JLW

<< <i>If I bought the lot from a dealer, tough beans for him.

If I bought it from the little old lady selling the dead husbands coins, I'd split the windfall with her.

Russ, NCNE >>


Dittos to this. (Unless it was that little old lady who's been selling off the old man's coins on eBay for 10 years or so now!)
Joe

gmarguli

If I bought it as a junk lot without looking thru it and the seller was OK with that, then the coin is mine free and clear and I have no second thought about reselling it for a major profit.

If some of the coins turned out to be worth less than I paid, no one would expect me to get a refund from the seller.

agentjim007

can tell you this for a fact. Any dealer (they all won't admit it) do not search for a seller. if there is a 16-d 10c in there you better find it before you bring it in. I told this story not that long ago. A dealer I know bought a batch of foriegn for next to nothing and found a near xf chain cent hopped on a plane to the next big show and got $17K. Anyone with a shop lives for one or two of those a year (if they're lucky)

MrKelso

<< <i>You are a dealer (or yourself... doesn't matter)... you buy someone's lot of silver at junk price... maybe 2.5x face like most dealers... maybe a bit more...

You get bored one day and begin searching it... you find a key date in great condition- it is worth FAR MORE than you paid for the entire lot...

Do you:
a- call the seller, you didn't realize the contents
b- sell it, you're a rich man
c- keep it- woohoo!
d- none of the above... write in your answer...

Why?

Jeremy >>



I go along with Russ on this one

shirohniichan

I agree with gmarguli. If someone came in who didn't know about collecting and asked me to go through the coins and make an offer, I'd make an offer based on the probable resale value of the coins. If someone came in and said, "I have some junk silver coins to sell," then I'd pay junk price and not worry about it. I doubt the seller would give me any money back if I found out later there were a lot of .500 fine British coins in the lot that I didn't notice.

Pushkin

d) This will never happen to me, I will never be so fortunate as to be faced with this kind of ethical question. Except for a set of 6 Korean steak knives that I won at a Kiwanis Club benefit as a teenager, I've never won or found anything of great value in my life. (Can you imagine how thrilled a 15 year old teenage boy was in winning 6 !&*$%" Korean steak knives?

nwcs

Ahh, good question. And since I didn't ask it this time, I can answer it!

I'm torn between B and C. If the coin was valuable enough, I would sell it and buy lots more and be happy. If it wasn't quite valuable enough, I would certify it and be glad to have gotten lucky on a typically lackluster deal. I have no problems morally or ethically with this choice. I have no problems because the deal wasn't to search through and report on numismatic values. The deal was for bulk. I bought bulk and expected nothing more. No deception or manipulation. Just a deal where I was very fortunate.

Bulldog

Been there done that.. Found a nice little box in a great big box that I never even looked at. I purchased the complete lot from a guy that I don't know, but whom was recommended to me by a freind. Found some real jewels, and discovered that I had severely undervalued his hoard at purchase time. to the tune of $40K.

I had the coins appraised, sold them and then wrote a check for $20K to the original owner. He had no idea what I was talking about or why I was being so nice to him.

Took me 1 nano second to make up my mind to do the right thing.

Had I bought this hoard from a shyster or coin dealer, I doubt I would have done anything to make it right. Not sure cause i am not in that situation and would have to search deep, to come up with the right direction to take. I have left too much $$$$ on the table in my life and none of those freaks ever passed me a dateless Buff even.

Bulldog

coppercoins

The question is different but the basic scenario is the same. We can change the basic structure of the question, change the subject we're talking about, but in all reality it boils down to one thing...

If I am the buyer and the seller:

1. Doesn't know any more than these are a "pile" of coins and I am buying them - it's my integrity to ensure I find that key date or whatever and notify the seller.

2. Claims it's a bulk lot, knows the silver spot price, or something that clues me in to the fact that they at least think they are educated...keep the coin or sell it and say nothing.

The difference is this...you call someone who knows about something and depend on their integrity and reputation to do business the right way, they should be responsible in what they do and make sure you are getting fair money for your item(s). If you are an educated coin buyer/collector/seller/dealer and you sell a bulk lot of stuff to someone and missed the boat on a key, that key belongs to the buyer - nothing more to add. Each case is going to be somewhat different, each case is going to warrant the need to charge your noodle and do some thinking. It's not all that hard.

A third scenario enters my mind, true story time again...

A dealer buys an estate and entrusts a portion of that estate to one of his helpers/regulars to sort and price the lot with the understanding that when the coins sell the helper will get a cut of the action...the helper takes the lot home in boxes, the dealer has no clue exactly what's in it when the helper leaves with it. The lot is all cents....there are 16 1909S cents in the lot and the dealer was none the wiser. If the helper does anything other than mark and grade all 16 of the coins accurately and return the figures to the dealer, he's dishonest. Point blank. This one should have been a pretty simple issue to figure out, but while we are in honesty and integrity I thought I'd share my true story - that's all.

By the way, I graded and holdered all 16 coins and took them to the dealer for re-inspection. He was happy there were as many as there were, but didn't look at them. He trusted my grading and trusted that I had priced them correctly. End of story.

CLASSICS

now that harold is gone, i sell it, make a lot of money on it, call up deb, and go to a drive-inn movie, the pop-corn is on me

agentjim007

Bulldog thats more than most dealers would do however if my math is correct you made sure you still made $20K, I'd say you took care of yourself just fine.

JD

Based on the way the question is presented I don't see this as a question of ethics...it's a simple buy/sell transaction. The seller sold junk silver, the buyer bought junk silver...both unknowing of the actual contents, both entering into a transaction willingly, both receiving what they consider to be fair value at the time of the offer, neither trying to deceive the other. No ethical issue here.

However...had Russ's little old lady laid the coins on the table face up and said 'examine the coins and make me a reasonable offer' then it's a different story. In Russ's 'unsearched' example he's showing he can be a kind decent human being (at least in theory).

Russ...had your local coin dealer sold you a bag of 'unsearched' junk silver and you discovered the 16d would you handle it the same way? Or, do you just feel sorry for the unsuspecting old lady?

If the coin dealer who sold you the 'unsearched' bag of junk silver was a knowledgable old lady would that make a difference?

Bulldog

Jim,

I sure did. And was greatly suprised. These things don't happen to me, just the other guys/gals. I sleep very well and have no problem whatsoever with my decision to split the cake with the seller, after the cake was bought and paid for by me.

My mom always said " The only thing on earth, that you own, is your name. Everything else belongs to the public and the Lord. So take care of your name".

What would you have done different Jim? Perhaps I erred in judgement? Perhaps I should have kept the entire wind fall? (NAH). Or perhaps I should have given this stranger (to me) all of the wind fall, with a tongue lashing about how he must be prudent, and more careful of what he sells or liquidates? (nah).

I am curious Jim, as I read in your post that somehow " I took care of myself". I am going to read that as I was Honest and still came out a winner. Thanks.

Bulldog