key dates in IHC series

1907Quarter

Recently I've wondered what it would be like (financially and searchwise) to locate and buy the 10 or so key Indian Head cents as part of a complete set. Is it a monster of an undertaking even if cost weren't a factor? Is there danger of counterfeiting? What about original color?

kranky

All in MS Red? Circulated?

1907Quarter

let's say xf to start

greghansen

In XF and from the Nov. issue of Greysheet:

1864 (L): $140
1866: $130
1867: $125
1868: $115
1869: $210
1870: $220
1871: $250
1872: $260
1877: $850
1909-S: $350

The 1877 is counterfeited via transfer die copies and by alterations from other dates. The 1909-s is counterfeited via added mint marks and transfer die copies. I not an IHC collector so can't comment on other aspects of your question.

Greg Hansen
Melbourne, FL

jdimmick

Depends on the grade that you would try an obtain. The key-dates change slightly depending on the grade range.

In Minstate red, it would be astronomical in price, if you could even find them available.

But on the other hand, building a set of Indian key-dates XF-AU in nice original eye-appealing condition, would be challenging, but obtainable in time for most folks. There are some real toughies in this group in problem free condition, and you would have to pay a premium for majority of the dates.

But a very nice set, with actually a steady rise in value over time if that's your thing also.
jim

Some of the dates are harder than they apear based on the price guide at least in my area of the country?
1864L,1866,1869, 1872,1876

On the other hand the 1909-s with its low mintage of 309,000 is so readily available I could literally buy every grade from vg-ms-63 within two days.

The 1877 is somewhat available, but will cost you a premium.

SarasotaFrank

I've put about $1000 in my IHC set, and have a ways to go. Still lacking an 1877, a 69/8 and a 61.

The entire 70's a tougher dates, and my collection boosts a number of these in dazzling "flat faced" condition.

Having nearly filled my album, I took to a new album and transferred the xf or better coins to the new album and have been knocking these off as I can. Starting from the back, I am mid way into the 1880's with AU or better coins. With teh expcetion of the 61, I have wrapped up the CN coins as well.

The 70's in XF or better are going to be a real challenge, as they are pricey and tough to come by.

The nice thing about IHC's in my opinion is the fact that you have a number of points of resistence as far as your overall set goal goes. When I started this set, I just wanted to accummulate the set. As I got deeper into it, I was able to set my goal a bit higher by limiting my additions to coins with a full discernable "Liberty". This is a reasonable stopping point for those who do not the endless deep pockets of the select few. Over the course of time, I was able to raise the stop point according to the number of distinct diamonds. I can sort of float around these "stop gap points" according to rarity. FOr example, I doubt I am going to be willing to spend the money on a 77 with 3.5 diamonds, but I can go for a full Liberty, or if I have to - a partial liberty and upgrade at a future time. Key dates will hold their value in this series. FOr now I am buying all of teh AU coins I can afford, and settling for less only as a last resort.

I have found that you will find a high percentage of cleaned coins in this series. Jon from RCNH has helped me a lot with this project in that regard, as the coins I have purchased from him have been tip top.

I just wish I could afford more of them!

IrishMike

Try to find a nice XF 78 too.

Pushkin

If your interested in putting an XF set together PM me. I still have about 70% of the Indians available in grades at or near what you are looking for, including some of the tougher dates. I have several super 1878's, which is a very difficult date to locate. They are all in PGS holders.

toothpuller

I have found Eagle Eye, Heritage, and David Lawrence to be the best online sources for IHCs. I would recommend buying the keys in PCGS, NGC or ANACS slabs to avoid counterfeits or non-original coins. Buying the keys raw IMO is looking for trouble.

An XF-AU key set is a very doable endeavor.

If you go MS60BN the 77 is $2500 and the next most expensive coin is the 72 at $500. Though it may be easier to find coins in MS65RD than in MS60.

Pushkin

Just one additional comment. For me, with Indians, eye appeal is much more important than grade. I have some AUs that look a heck of a lot better than MS-63/64s. Also, some of the most disappointing coins I have are MS-64 and MS-65 RDs - they just aren't what they are made up to be and you pay a huge premium. Many of the BNs have fabulous eye appeal. Suggest you look at a lot of Indians and decide what you like. I avoid Indians with marks on the face/cheek, and with scratches anywhere.

A lot of folks will probably disagree, but I think the grading services do only a poor to fair job on grading them with any consistency, at least until you get up to MS-65 and above. Study Rick Snow's guidelines for grading at www.indiancent.com and check out Shylock's great website www.indianheads.org for some outstanding information. I'd have to say that about 70% of the Indians I've purchased on the Internet, both from eBay and dealers, are overgraded, and about half of that 70% grossly overgraded(holds for both raw and slabbed - PCGS, NGC, IGC, ANACS, SEGS). Also, go to a few coin shows - you'll see so much AT being sold it will make you sick. Just a few words of caution and advice - and only my opinion.

SarasotaFrank

<< <i>If your interested in putting an XF set together PM me. I still have about 70% of the Indians available in grades at or near what you are looking for, including some of the tougher dates. I have several super 1878's, which is a very difficult date to locate. They are all in PGS holders. >>



Puskin:

Feel free to email me at wallofknowledge@comcast.net. I would be interested in knowing what is available and pricing. Plus the added premium of having these in the highly esteemed PGS holders would probably further fuel my interest!

toothpuller

Pushkin,

As usual you make many good points. As an IHC die variety expert you quite possibly can grade the series as well or better than a company grader. I still think for the novice or lesser experienced IHC or copper collector it is safer to buy coins graded by one of the better services until they are more experienced with copper coins. It is a jungle out there and the typical raw IHC sold on eBay or at a local coin show is certainly not going to be, in the long run, a prized acquisition.

Your advice on Eagle Eye and Paul's site are right on. First one must decide the grade level they are interested in and learn the grading nuances. If someone is just looking to buy a few of the keys I am not sure they will have the time to gain that expertise.

1907Quarter

Once again, thanks for all the great information, especially those websites! These coins are quite expensive and I'm not seriously cosidering the set currently(even in G where the 77 is atleast 400-)

It seems to be a fascinating coin to collect. Morey received several from the contest and it set off my interests. For now, I'm completing a type set and this has been going on for three years. I have not spent more than 175 on a particular coin and yet I can say I like each one a great deal.

Lakesammman

I started collecting IHC's seriously 6 years ago. I still haven't found a 1877 for sale to my liking, so be patient....it's better to have a hole in the album than a substandard coin.