Need seasoned advice re: coins on approval.
Gilbert
Posts: 1,533 ✭✭✭
I have been putting together my Franklin half dollar set by reviewing coins on approval, raw purchases worthy of encapsulation, and individual purchases as I encouter them.
The COA come from a fairly reputable dealer, who "prides themselves on selecting only coins they would have in their collection," I GUESS that could be true.
Anyway, out of the last5 coins received, I've returned 2, kept 2 and the latest received, could be an outstanding coin (I think) if I had it curated. Let me explain: it has three spots that appear to be nothing unusual, except, upon magnification, they are not merely spots, but some "buildup".
Now I really don't relish having to return coins at this rate, nor do I relish the idea of having to "challenge" this company AGAIN on their procurement strategies. I have made it clear what I prefer or don't prefer, yet, the five last selections make me think that either, this company is choosing to disregard my criteria, is substituting its own criteria, or flat out is trying to convey that they believe my criteria is, shall we say, too "particular".
Now, being the person I am, I have considered keeping this last coin (spotted) and sending it to NCS for an eval for possible conservation, as I believe that the contamination will spread, OR, it being a PCGS certified coin, maybe sending it to PCGS for eval and whatever it is they do to correct such problems. I am also considering notifiying said company of my intentions, just to find out what their position would be if NCS or PCGS feels the coin requires conservation, and if I go the NCS route, would they own up to the costs and maybe reevaluate the coins they send out.
Why am I even considering keeping it? Well, it is a relatively unmarked obverse with a very strong and bold reverse; could even possible (on slightly) upgrade with conservation, but even without the upgrade, I can accept its current grade, and without the spots, it would be a very nice specimen for the grade. Additionally, I really like the company and don't want to "infect" our relationship because some looks at the returns as being frivilous, instead of being open minded about it. Either say your criterian is unobtainable, we don't want to put the effort into your want list according to your criteria, or despite what we say, we do in fact buy some "dog material" on ocassion and inadvertently send them to a customer who we have forgotten will most likely send it back.
I think I've given you the gist of my situation without invecting anymore details. Please let me know what you think about this situation. By the way, I have already spoken to one of the higher ups in the company, who I believe, is so involved in many far reaching concepts that although he may have given his true opinion, which I don't greatly dispute, but has just been involved with so many "rarities" and such, that my issue is just a pimple on a gnat's a$$. I greatly respect the man and his company, but, as an average collector, I just get the feeling that in the grand scheme of things, my dissatisfaction with the selections sent is so miniscule as to be non-existent.
I guess I know what the general feeling will be: stop doing business with this company. Yet, I would much prefer to make my point understood, as I beleive there are probably collectors less fortunate and less assertive that I, who would greatly benefit if I were successful in pointing out that this company seems to somewhat turn a blind eye to the, shall we say, less noticeable client.
I imagine there are as many, if not more, collectors satisfied with their 4 figure and above purchases, but I suspect there may be quite a few less prolific collectors who want this company to flourish for ALL collectors, but are simply being placated.
Any substantive comments are welcome.
The COA come from a fairly reputable dealer, who "prides themselves on selecting only coins they would have in their collection," I GUESS that could be true.
Anyway, out of the last5 coins received, I've returned 2, kept 2 and the latest received, could be an outstanding coin (I think) if I had it curated. Let me explain: it has three spots that appear to be nothing unusual, except, upon magnification, they are not merely spots, but some "buildup".
Now I really don't relish having to return coins at this rate, nor do I relish the idea of having to "challenge" this company AGAIN on their procurement strategies. I have made it clear what I prefer or don't prefer, yet, the five last selections make me think that either, this company is choosing to disregard my criteria, is substituting its own criteria, or flat out is trying to convey that they believe my criteria is, shall we say, too "particular".
Now, being the person I am, I have considered keeping this last coin (spotted) and sending it to NCS for an eval for possible conservation, as I believe that the contamination will spread, OR, it being a PCGS certified coin, maybe sending it to PCGS for eval and whatever it is they do to correct such problems. I am also considering notifiying said company of my intentions, just to find out what their position would be if NCS or PCGS feels the coin requires conservation, and if I go the NCS route, would they own up to the costs and maybe reevaluate the coins they send out.
Why am I even considering keeping it? Well, it is a relatively unmarked obverse with a very strong and bold reverse; could even possible (on slightly) upgrade with conservation, but even without the upgrade, I can accept its current grade, and without the spots, it would be a very nice specimen for the grade. Additionally, I really like the company and don't want to "infect" our relationship because some looks at the returns as being frivilous, instead of being open minded about it. Either say your criterian is unobtainable, we don't want to put the effort into your want list according to your criteria, or despite what we say, we do in fact buy some "dog material" on ocassion and inadvertently send them to a customer who we have forgotten will most likely send it back.
I think I've given you the gist of my situation without invecting anymore details. Please let me know what you think about this situation. By the way, I have already spoken to one of the higher ups in the company, who I believe, is so involved in many far reaching concepts that although he may have given his true opinion, which I don't greatly dispute, but has just been involved with so many "rarities" and such, that my issue is just a pimple on a gnat's a$$. I greatly respect the man and his company, but, as an average collector, I just get the feeling that in the grand scheme of things, my dissatisfaction with the selections sent is so miniscule as to be non-existent.
I guess I know what the general feeling will be: stop doing business with this company. Yet, I would much prefer to make my point understood, as I beleive there are probably collectors less fortunate and less assertive that I, who would greatly benefit if I were successful in pointing out that this company seems to somewhat turn a blind eye to the, shall we say, less noticeable client.
I imagine there are as many, if not more, collectors satisfied with their 4 figure and above purchases, but I suspect there may be quite a few less prolific collectors who want this company to flourish for ALL collectors, but are simply being placated.
Any substantive comments are welcome.
Gilbert
0
Comments
Just keep returning the coins! This is why I don't give out want lists... dealers tend to send you every piece of junk that has the right date! I have a dealer that does it this way.... she sends me a scan of the coin first .... If I decide to take a closer look, she sends me the coin "on approval". Getting a picture first cuts out 80% of the nonsense.
In God We Trust.... all others pay in Gold and Silver!
As far as the coin you have now that has problems, I would definately wait for a better one. There are enough coins out there, that you don't have to go out of your way to buy one needing to be conserved. Just my opininions of course, but all coins seem to come up in the right grade and right price if you are patient.
Jay
Or it's possible that your standards are higher than theirs. Just a thought - when you buy one in person, how many do you look at (in the grade you want) compared to how many you buy? You probably look at quite a few first even if they are slabbed, and maybe it's unrealistic to expect someone to send you coins on approval which meet your needs 95% of the time, when you might buy 1% of the ones you see in person.
I appreciate that you would prefer that they change their ways, but it might be asking the impossible. You have kept 2 of the last 5 coins. Can you live with that batting average? Can they? If you both can accept that, then no problem. If either of you (or both) feel that's not sufficient, then I suggest you shop around for another dealer. That could be much less aggravating than getting them to change, especially since you've already spoken to a higher-up.
New collectors, please educate yourself before spending money on coins; there are people who believe that using numismatic knowledge to rip the naïve is what this hobby is all about.
Spooly's scenario is the best, I feel. I did that for a while, and it worked out quite well. The only time I returned a scanned coin was if something wasn't apparent with the scan (hairlines), or the color wasn't what it appeared. Your dealer may not be willing to go through the scan routine though.
I guess the key is do YOU feel as if they are sending you borderline material, just to try and make it stick, or are they just misinterpreting your preferences.
LSCC#1864
Ebay Stuff
Regarding this coin, let me say, my intention is not an upgrade - I just think that without the "spots", which on magnification appear to be some substance or debris, the coin might be looked at in a better light. It IS a fairly well struck and relatively unmarked coin, with the noted exception, and to the naked eye it does look like spots, but magnify it and it is clear one of these spots is more like a molehill.
Spooley, images would be nice, but I'm on the lower end of their clientele, and my category of coins is not image.
Mojoe, I've explained why I would like to keep it (providing it can be rescued) above; I suspect finding a specimen with the mint details of this one is going to be arduous.
Wisconsin, have tried a couple other companies, one of which profess the same procurement strategies, Needless to say, it seems to apply more to the "rarities" than the more modern series. In this case I'm talkin' Franklins.
Kranky, I am seriously considering that I may need to reconsider if this can continue to be my primary source.
Darktone, Not after a better coin, only stabilizing this one, and, the coins I'm returns I'm refering to weren't raw. I would expect a higher rate of return for raw coins, although I would be equally displeased.
BigD, I understand your point(s). I think I've been with them long enough for them to understand, although, they have not been immune to the numerous personnel changes that seem so pervasive lately. But, I each time they replace someone, I personally contact the newbie and TRY to advise them (verbally and in writing) as to my collecting proclivities. The "gnat" comment may be the most appropriate, OR, as I've been responding I considered that:
Maybe, without saying it, they are trying to steer me into buying higher grade coins. Right now, I am hovering at the "bargain line" where say the next grade is not worthy of the premium TO ME. Rather than only sending the best in the grade, it would be easier if they could convince me I need the next higher grade to be satisfied. I guess they just haven't considered that my expections would rise proportionately.
Still interested in any differing opinions. Thanks.
IMHO, MS Franklin Half Dollars are one of those coins that in most instances come low end to average for the grade these days (i.e. an MS66 might typically grade MS66.01-MS66.6 with an average coin coming in at around MS66.3). Many of the super coins have been gobbled up long ago and the "high end examples" are often in dealers' hands awaiting PCGS to shift a mere 1/10 point in its grading to upgade the coins to MS67FBL (I own many coins just like that). The coins that have upgraded recently are often times low end for the new (higher) grade they just acheived as well. My point being - IMHO, if you desire super "PQ" Franklins for the grade - you most likely need to take a much more active role in your search (e.g. fly to major auctions to bid against the top dealers for the prize coins, etc).
Incidently, I do have the vast majority of the Registrycoin former #1 PCGS MS Franklin collection on consignment and after I finish up with one collector I have promised "first shot" on the coins (I will get to this probably 1/03), I will likely be offering some very nice Franklins on the Registry forum first and then on ebay.