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Images/discussion -- a very original Indian Head cent

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I enjoyed Mark Feld's (Coinguy1) "image/discussion" thread and agree it would make a good recurring thread. At the September Long Beach Show I had the opportunity to image some of the Indian Cent Showdown coins that PCGS displayed, and one of my lasting impressions was this one. It's part of Stewart Blay's set, and when you consider the rest of his coins -- the "golden princess" 1877 finest known, and a 1900 that's the most beautiful IH I've ever seen just to name two -- that's saying something.

1880s IH cents are the dark ages of the series. The US Mint was in the early stages of contracting outside sources for bronze, and almost all toned darker than those from other eras. I've never read an explanation for this, and assume it was due to an inferior copper source provided by the suppliers. They oxidized more frequently than any others as well, particulary from 1885 thru the early 90s dates. 1886 and 1887 are found almost exclusivly dark and spotted. Finding a clean, lustrous, well struck example, with some attractive deep red or tan toning, is really all you can hope for.

Besides the obvious, the most extraordinary thing about Stewart's 1886T1 is its color. It's as close to the original tone of the planchets used during this era as you will ever find.

Comments

  • That's absolutely stunning!
    NMFB ™

    image
  • MrKelsoMrKelso Posts: 2,907 ✭✭✭
    Breath Taking.


    "The silver is mine and the gold is mine,' declares the LORD GOD Almighty."
  • Wow!... Wow!... Wow!
    image
  • airplanenutairplanenut Posts: 22,149 ✭✭✭✭✭
    It's ugly...


    image
    JK Coin Photography - eBay Consignments | High Quality Photos | LOW Prices | 20% of Consignment Proceeds Go to Pancreatic Cancer Research
  • BladeBlade Posts: 1,744
    Paul,
    Great contributions once again. In you opinion, how would a coin like this have been stored to maintain absolute perfection? I don't think they had airthight containers in the 1800's. Any information on this particular example? As an alternative consideration, is there any method that would allow you to clean an IHC like this? Or is this a 1 in a million occurance given near impossible perfect conditions?
    Tom

    NOTE: No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However, a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.

    Type collector since 1981
    Current focus 1855 date type set
  • That is a phenomenon! That's what aspirations of grade and condition are all about. Nice image!
  • shylockshylock Posts: 4,288 ✭✭✭
    Tom (Blade) - One of the unusual things about this coin is the tone, a slightly watered down mint gold. But a combination of the shimmering, flowing lustre, and knowing it's consistent with the shade almost all others turned to, make it totally original. I saw more than one collector fawn over this coin at the show. It's definitely 1 in a million occurance and the mystery of how it survived is one of the reasons I'm attracted to coins like this.
  • merz2merz2 Posts: 2,474
    Paul
    As usual you come through again.There truely is candy for the eyes of collectors.No one can look at a copper coin like that and not be amazed.The mystery of how it stayed so pristine will never be answered.Just enjoy it for what it is.Silver coins are a whole lot tougher.The copper coins,because of their nature are definitely tougher to find that nice.
    Don
    Registry 1909-1958 Proof Lincolns
  • LakesammmanLakesammman Posts: 17,381 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Have to agree - that was one monster coin. It was a real pleasure to see in person.
    "My friends who see my collection sometimes ask what something costs. I tell them and they are in awe at my stupidity." (Baccaruda, 12/03).I find it hard to believe that he (Trump) rushed to some hotel to meet girls of loose morals, although ours are undoubtedly the best in the world. (Putin 1/17) Gone but not forgotten. IGWT, Speedy, Bear, BigE, HokieFore, John Burns, Russ, TahoeDale, Dahlonega, Astrorat, Stewart Blay, Oldhoopster, Broadstruck, Ricko, Big Moose.
  • coinguy1coinguy1 Posts: 13,484 ✭✭✭
    Paul, you certainly picked a fine Indian cent to discuss. My only problem with it as a subject is that it is so amazing looking, there is little that can be said about it other than wow, amazing and things like that!

    It is truly, nearly impossible to find Indian cents of ANY date with color (and spot-free surfaces) like that. We have numerous want lists for such coins and constantly look through auctions, collections, dealers' inventories, etc but have little, if any success. It is a frustrating hunt!

    As a slight aside - what storage/preservation methods do you recommend for such fragile/potentially unstable rarities?
  • MacCoinMacCoin Posts: 2,544 ✭✭
    thanx Paul another great post. what I have seen in my coins is the mid to late 80s IHC have a nice solid brown tome. the early 80s are a little spotty. I have a beautiful 85 thats just is turning from red to brown.
    image


    I hate it when you see my post before I can edit the spelling.

    Always looking for nice type coins

    my local dealer
  • IrishMikeIrishMike Posts: 7,737 ✭✭✭
    I keep coming back to look at this coin. I don't know how many 80's I have looked at over the years, most of them downright ugly. This has to be the nicest one I have ever seen.
  • tjkilliantjkillian Posts: 5,578 ✭✭✭
    I remember that specific coin very, very well. I was looking at it at the Long Beach show with Stewart Blay and I really did think that was the best, freshest looking Indian cent I have ever seen, including the rest of his set! It was absolutely breath taking. That is what a perfect Indian cent should be.

    Tom
    Tom

  • shylockshylock Posts: 4,288 ✭✭✭
    Mark -- Agreed, like many of Stewart's IHs this one doesn't leave much room for discussion. After viewing the collections at Long Beach I became jaded when it came time to search the bourse floor for one or two nice common date IHs. Your comments about quality vs. wantlists confirms how tough the really nice ones are. It takes so much more than just expendable income to acquire them and I appreciate the work Stewart and some other collectors put into chasing them down. It starts with sound knowledge and ends with lots of travel and lots of networking. Not much different than working a second fulltime job.

    Overkill is the way to go as far as storing red copper. I use the layer method, the same way my mother dressed me in the winter! A slab within a coinbox within an airtite container within a safe/safety deposit box within a climate controlled structure (preferably within a dry state but that's optional). And carefully monitored silica cannisters in the airtite container and safe. Lakesammman has a clever added touch -- he keeps a roll of modern Lincoln cents with his IHs, using them as a "canary" for early warning signs.

    On a lighter note, perhaps we'd have more to talk about if this coin looked like this (sorry Stewart):

    image

    And can you explain this Mark?

    image
  • TWQGTWQG Posts: 3,145 ✭✭
    LOL on the 86image

    is that Mark in the photo? weekend hobby?image
  • PushkinPushkin Posts: 2,029 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Your comments about quality vs. wantlists confirms how tough the really nice ones are. It takes so much more than just expendable income to acquire them >>



    Sadly, what you and Mark say is all too true. As for "real Reds" I have two out of about 24 in PCGS/NGC slabs that I would say are really stunning - one is a proof with eye appeal that puts all the others to shame. For me, about a dozen BNs have stunning eye appeal, and I'm starting to appreciate them more and more as time goes on. Again, just my opinion - but its becoming too difficult and too much work to find the true blazers - not to mention too expensive. For the limited means collector, I would suggest concentrating on BNs - there are still a good number of beautiful BNs available and they are affordable.

    I'll take a stunning BN anyday over any of the many mediocre RDs.image
  • coinguy1coinguy1 Posts: 13,484 ✭✭✭
    Paul! Here are a few possible explanations, though your question was very open-ended:

    1) I was having a "bad hair day"?
    2) I had been ill and not gone to the gym for a while?
    3) Due to a lack of vacation time my tan had faded?

    Was that the kind of thing you meant? image
  • LakesammmanLakesammman Posts: 17,381 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Paul:

    My other trick is to wrap the coins in copper-wool (from a marine store). It will react with anything in the environment before sneaking into the Lucent boxes or slabs.

    Looks like the IHC has a goiter - I recommend further imaging.....

    Re: the statue - you could have put his head on a male statue....is "she" on the phone??

    "My friends who see my collection sometimes ask what something costs. I tell them and they are in awe at my stupidity." (Baccaruda, 12/03).I find it hard to believe that he (Trump) rushed to some hotel to meet girls of loose morals, although ours are undoubtedly the best in the world. (Putin 1/17) Gone but not forgotten. IGWT, Speedy, Bear, BigE, HokieFore, John Burns, Russ, TahoeDale, Dahlonega, Astrorat, Stewart Blay, Oldhoopster, Broadstruck, Ricko, Big Moose.

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