Hey Merz2 I need your CAM input

sadysta1

This question is for Merz2 directly but input of others is quite welcome. I recently bought this proof wheat penny and I'm wondering if there is a chance that PCGS can give it cam designation. I would like to know that since you were the only person with pre 1950 CAM wheat cent. Currently this coin is in older generation NGC slab. Any guesses???
this side will be the key contrast is not as strong

a good contrast here

coppercoins

I would be willing to pay to see that coin in person. I believe I see a doubled die reverse from what I see in your scan, and if it is, it would be a discovery piece. To date there is only one doubled die reverse 1937 proof cent die known, and it's minor. Yours appears to be a very nice class 6 distended hub doubled die. I would very much like to see and microphotograph that coin. Please - PLEASE - contact me if you're willing to let go of it for a couple of days. I will pay registered both ways and will publish the photos on my site and credit the discovery to you.

KlectorKid

wow DDR awesome!

sadysta1

coppercoins - PM me with your info

andy007

The obverse looks a little weak to me, I think it would get one of those star designations if sent back in to NGC or wouldn't go CAM at PCGS. The mirrors don't look too deep either, but that could just be the scan.

merz2

sadysta1
That is a very nice Lincoln.I am concerned with the colors.I think it is just the scan though.Let me address the Dbl Die,it isn't a Dbl Die.I have very good pics in my book by John Wexler and Larry Flynn.In order for it to be the Dbl Die there would have to be strong doubleing on ONE CENT.I believe it is worth a try.You are correct about the reverse.It would definitely get it.The obverse is a little weak,but just maybe,if they look at the whole coin before decideing.My guess at the grade is PR65+,might even grade PR66.It would definitely go to PCGS cross at any grade,if it belonged to me.That is my honest opinion.

KlectorKid

I see doubling on One Cent

KlectorKid

Look at the "O" in One

coppercoins

I didn't say it was "the" doubled die listed. I said it appears to be "a" doubled die, and from what the scan shows, I see strong signs that it is. We will have to wait until I have a chance to examine the coin to be sure - but simply stating that it's not one from looking at a scan is presumptuous in my opinion. Truthfully nobody could tell from the lighting in the image and the level of magnification in the image that it is or is not. That's why I asked to see the coin.

The points I am questioning as to whether the coin is a doubled die are not in ONE CENT. I was eyeballing the motto and the left wheat stalk. I also have question as to why the date appears to be so thick, especially in the lower 9 and lower 3. Another point I will look at if I get to see the coin.

Once again, however, I did NOT say it "is" a doubled die. I said it "appears to be" a doubled die...proper examination under proper lighting with proper equipment would be required to tell one way or the other.

shylock

Threads like this are the forum at it's best. A collector with two discovery coins already to his credit makes a totally unrelated post and may wind up with the 2nd known of a third! And it only took one reply. Cameo or not, the reverse sure looks interesting. Even the stems of the wheat stalks look doubled. Please update this post with your findings and images Coppercoins.

merz2

KK
The pics in my book shows doubleing on the CENT as well as the ONE.

KlectorKid

I get ya now.

coppercoins

I'll be absolutely sure to reply to this thread with the photos, listing number (if it gets one), and a big hearty thanks to the discoverer and owner of the coin.

My opinion regarding the original issue (CAM)....obverse - "maybe" with definite emphasis on that. Reverse - "likely" but it's hard to be certain with scans. I'll do up a properly lit digital photo of the coin and post it for revised opinions.

Stay tuned...

merz2

coppercoins
If it is an unknown Dbl Die,I'd be surprised.I believe it is the pics makeing it look that way.I've seen many photos like that.You are right,that it would take closer in hand examination.I was just stateing my belief,based on past experience with that year Lincoln Proof.I've held the only(to date) PR66 CAM PCGS has attributed.I've seen many and held them in my hands.I take no offense at your statements.Discussion and difference of opinions make this place The Best.IMHO

sadysta1

I do not think it is a double die. I used good ol' pencil trick to put the coin at an angle to show the contrast better. I check it but I do not see any doubling (on the other hand I'm using 10x loupe and 40W desk lamp.

sadysta1

to make a case why I'll try to cross it to PCGS as CAM let me post the second proof cent I bought there is some difference.
pic1 proof wheat
pic2 proof wheat

merz2

sadysta
The link on the second coin gives me a weird message about broadcasting my web address so someone can attack my computer. It works now.I definitely don't like the splotches on the 1938.

coppercoins

<< <i>coppercoins
If it is an unknown Dbl Die,I'd be surprised.I believe it is the pics makeing it look that way.I've seen many photos like that.You are right,that it would take closer in hand examination.I was just stateing my belief,based on past experience with that year Lincoln Proof.I've held the only(to date) PR66 CAM PCGS has attributed.I've seen many and held them in my hands.I take no offense at your statements.Discussion and difference of opinions make this place The Best.IMHO >>



Merz - be suprised, the coin is - I repeat, IS - a doubled die reverse, and a pretty nice one at that. What I saw in Sadysta's scan as hub doubling indeed is the real deal, exactly where I had seen it. I am going to take photos this weekend and post them here, and at the same time ship the photos to J. Wiles via e-mail to see if this die matches up with his listed proof DDR-005. I doubt it does with reference to the notes I have regarding die markers. With that in mind, I do believe Sadysta has made yet another discovery (albeit with a little help).

The DDR listed in the guide by Wexler and Flynn is for a business strike cent, and is quite strong, but naturally would not be possible on this coin. What the guide doesn't mention is that there are at least four other doubled die reverses for that date and mint, at least one of which is a proof listing. Whether the proof listing matches this coin is yet to be determined, but even if it does, this coin would be the third piece known for the die.

Stay tuned, photos to follow within 48 hours.

sadysta1

Happy, Happy, Happy.......

With that in mind, I do believe Sadysta has made yet another discovery (albeit with a little help).

What I like to call it better lucky than good.