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Observation of a Neophyte Collector of Circulated Barber Half Dollars

One year ago, I began to collect Barber half dollars in all circulated grades. The following observations are based on one year's experiences and some are likely erroneous as they are based on a short time period. Almost all coins were obtained via auction, mail order dealers, and Ebay. None were obtained "in-person" from a coin dealer. The large majority of coins graded VF or less were acquired on Ebay. XF and AU coins were purchased from the non-Ebay sources. Collection population of 100+ circulated Barber halfs and one MS63 which I believe is an AU58. Looked at every Barber in Heritages auction archive for which a photo still exists and looked at thousands of Ebay halfs.

Observations:

1. AG and G graded Barbers are plentiful for all dates after 1897.

2. Problem free VG coins are difficult to acquire for many dates. In this grade, coins with totally problem free rims and edges are quite scarce.

3. There are more XF and AU coins available than F and VF coins.

4. Most non-slabbed XF and AU Barber halfs have been cleaned.

5. Many if not most AU slabbed coins have been dipped, some have been cleaned.

6. Especially for early dates, the large majority of uncleaned/undipped XF and AU coins are darkly toned.

7. Grading circulated Barber halfs is relatively easy. The most difficult grading decision is the distinction between XF 45 and AU50. Since there is almost always a significant price difference between XF45 and AU50, this is a critical grading point. Almost all unslabbed AU50 coins offered on Ebay are overgraded. This is also true for some mail order dealers especially for the scarcer dates.

8. Most slabbed circulated Barbers are in ANACS holders.

9. The five most difficult dates in XF and AU are 1897O, 1897S, 1901S, 1904S and 1907S.

10. Spectacularly toned circulated Barber halfs may not exist.

11. Other than David Lawrence's books there is not a great deal of literature available on this series.

12. There does not appear to be many collectors of Barber halfs by date compared to the more popular series such as Indians, Morgans, etc. This may be due in part to the relative low availability of Barber halfs.

Corrections, additions, and other opinions are solicited.

Comments

  • greghansengreghansen Posts: 4,301 ✭✭✭
    Interesting. I've been thinking about doing a cheapie F to XF album of Barber Halves. I like the BIGGER coins. Some think I may be trying to compensate for something....???? I live in an area where I have a lot of access to coin shops and shows, even national ones. I'm thinking I might want to get the key coins in person, but wouldn't have a problem getting others via EBAY or mail order. I guess what suprised me most was your observation that XF/AU coins are more frequently encountered than F/VF. I wonder if thats primarily a function of the price points that EBAY and mail order folks cater too? I'll be interested to see if the same is true for shops and shows.

    Greg Hansen
    Melbourne, FL

    Greg Hansen, Melbourne, FL Click here for any current EBAY auctions Multiple "Circle of Trust" transactions over 14 years on forum

  • LanLordLanLord Posts: 11,714 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I always thought the 1904s was the most difficult to obtain in anything above vg8.
    The 1892micro O exists in only a couple expamples and may therefore be the single most difficult Barber half to obtain.
  • Tuesday November 26, 2002 9:51 PM (NEW!)



    I always thought the 1904s was the most difficult to obtain in anything above vg8.
    The 1892micro O exists in only a couple expamples and may therefore be the single most difficult Barber half to obtain.

    Experinces were based on a one year period so the fact that I found quite a few 1904S coins could be misleading. You are absolutely correct about the 1902 micro O. I did not see one offered anywhere.Text
  • Coin FinderCoin Finder Posts: 7,163 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I concur absolultly. I just recieved my grades for three Barber Halfs subbmitted to PCGS:

    1908 S VF25 original
    1907 S VF30 original but a bit dark I would call it a dead on EF. and I mean Dead ON!!
    1897 S ag 3 really a 3.5!!

    Mark
  • I guess what suprised me most was your observation that XF/AU coins are more frequently encountered than F/VF. I wonder if thats primarily a function of the price points


    I have heard a number of theories on this. One is that collectors of the era pulled coins from circulation and saved the better looking ones. Thus more XF and AU coins.

    The second theory is because of the wear characteristics of the halfs, coins quickly went from uncirculated to good condition and stayed that way for some time before going to AG grade.

    G coins are far more plentiful than VG coins. By the time Barber halfs were pulled from circulation as they were becoming obsolete probably only G grade coins remained.

    I think both theories are correct and do not contradict each other.
  • The 1892-S is also difficult to find. I am also working on a vg or better set. I bought a few in ef40,45 graded by ANACS. Yep, they grade most of the circulated ones. Their fees are less so they get more circulated coins to grade. You will not find rainbow toned circulated coins. They should be a natural silver grey. Silver exposed to air and circulation will have this nice even toning/tarnish.

    You said most Au50 barbers on ebay are overgraded. That is true. I also find at least half of the raw coins are overgraded in any series on ebay. There are a few people who grade honestly ( I try to)
  • cladkingcladking Posts: 28,651 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Coins tend to wear fairly evenly in circulation. When the economy slows down the
    rate at which new coins enter circulation drops and will partially compensate for
    the lower velocity of existing coin. The coin has a similar hardness throughout,
    though it will take a little longer for the very outer most metal to be displaced, this
    seems especially noticeable on nickel and copper nickel coins. The grading spectrum
    for most series does not fit extremely well to the rate of wear, hence there are some
    grades which are much wider than others. For instance most Barber halves will spend
    more time in VG than in VF in circulation. In general, worn coins spent much longer in
    each of the lower grades than in each of the upper grades.
    Tempus fugit.
  • krankykranky Posts: 8,709 ✭✭✭
    Great post! I'm also surprised by your comment that XF/AUs are more prevalent than F/VFs.

    New collectors, please educate yourself before spending money on coins; there are people who believe that using numismatic knowledge to rip the naïve is what this hobby is all about.

  • ARCOARCO Posts: 4,396 ✭✭✭✭✭
    AHHHH I am in heaven. Barber Talk!!

    Right on in every regard! One note. F/VF coins for their lesser price are probably collected more and thus less available. In relative terms they may seem less available, but I am of the opinion that XF and AU coins are very scarce and are scarcer in an absolute sense over the F-VF range halves, but can be found but almost always in cleaned condition.

    Nice VG10 coins can be extremely hard to find. In three years I never seen many early date P mint halves in original VG10, ditto for the 1903 P.

    So many paradoxes that it is difficult to go into. I have owned two wholly original 1904-S XF40 Barber Halves and seen Three super nice ones offered on Ebay, but have never seen a decent 1907-P in VF or XF!

    AU coins are almost 100 % dipped that is so true. I am of the opinion that a wholly original AU set could not be completed in one's lifetime. 10 year minimum for a true XF set, and probably 3 to 5 years are needed to put together a VF set. break it into a F-VF set and it could be done in 2 years with a very aggressive buying attitude.

    I know a collector who after ten years has never seen an original 1896-O VF or better.

    The barber coin collectors society has ten years of Barber material. That would be a great club to join if you love Barbers. PM me and I will get you the details.

    Tyler
  • ARCOARCO Posts: 4,396 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Oh I wanted to add my scarcity list.

    Top eight (wholly original)

    1892-S F & VF only
    1893-S Fine or better
    1894 VG10- VF30
    1896-O Fine or better
    1897-O fine or better
    1898-O Fine or better
    1901-S Fine or better
    1904-S Fine or better

    Runners up

    1895-S F12 - VF30
    1896-S Fine or better
    1897-S Fine or better ( a bit overrated in my opinion up to VF)
    1901-O fine or better
    1902-S VF or better
    1907-S VF or better


    Sleepers

    1893 Fine - XF
    1896 Fine - XF
    1899-O &1900-O Fine- XF
    1903 VG and better

    Tyler
  • EVillageProwlerEVillageProwler Posts: 5,856 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'm also surprised by your comment that XF/AUs are more prevalent than F/VFs.

    This is also true, in general, for Seated Dollars (and probably halves as well).

    EVP

    How does one get a hater to stop hating?

    I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com

  • critocrito Posts: 1,735
    I never liked the series, personally. Liberty looks like a dude, and a Roman Senator at that image But have a fondness for anything from New Orleans mint. A few years ago bought a rather large mixed bag of 90% silver. Pulled about two dozen Barber halves out. Luckily was able to sell the Mercs and Walkers back to same dealer (sorted) and really didn't pay much over melt for anything I kept. Guess I'm going to have to get a book on the series, don't even know what a micro O looks like image I put a lot of albums together from that batch actually, and had a ton of fun (except for the hernia, JK), so doesn't really matter to me how much they're worth. Already paid for themselves in entertainment value image
    image
  • I started a circulated set of Barbers about a year ago, I even bought a used 1960 Whitman album to put them. They really look great in those old albums.

    Here's one I picked up at my local dealer last week. 1907 D
    Frank

    image
  • DaveGDaveG Posts: 3,535
    I remember eavesdropping on a conversation between two dealers about ten years ago, in which one of the dealers was saying that F and VF Barber halves and quarters were always in demand and always easy sales.

    Perhaps it isn't that these coins are less available, but, because of the demand for them, they get bought by dealers for their wantlists and, therefore, never make it into their inventory.

    Certainly, I agree, I see very few un-messed with F and VF Barber halves!

    Check out the Southern Gold Society

  • jdimmickjdimmick Posts: 9,675 ✭✭✭✭✭
    My comments on Barber Halves.

    In my opinion, Full original XF/AU Barber halves are far more difficult than F/vf in most dates. Some of the dates are nearly impossible to find. I cannot comment to much on every date from the set, since I only deal with key-dates, but dates such as the 04-s is extremely diifcult to locate. (more on that later)

    In lower grades, such as Good, I find that the 93 coins and 92-s is quite tough in problem free. However, on the contrary I have never had much problem locating the 97-o, and 97-s. Even the 97-s is available from time to time in grades thru vf.

    I do agree with the comment that Nice Eye-apealing vg-10 barber halves are quite tough, there is a very strong demand in this grade of barber halves for the average collector budget.

    Also, there are very limited number of collectors of Barber halves in my area of the country, I have never really known why??

    Back on the 04-s, I had gotten into my mind about 5 years ago to pursue and try to locate a really nice AU 04-s for my collection. I spent nearly three years looking for this coin, one that would PCGS holder. After looking for a long time, I got a call from a dealer in Wisconsin who informed me he picked up one raw in a old collection. I told him that I would pay whatever he needed as long as it would slab, and that I would cover the grading fee. He informed me that it was an Au-50, It did grade, but came back only as a 45, which is actually the grade I thought personally. I bought the coin for 1000.00 which was like double the CDn at that time, and really still is. It was a real nice coin though. At that time it was the only xf-45 graded by PCGS with only a few others in all grades of AU. I still wanted to locate a higher grade nice AU. While looking, I had begun to here reports that crazy money was being paid for 04-s halves, so I decided to list mine on an On-line auction with a super high reserve at 1750.00, just to kind of get a feel for what it would bring. Not even after 45 minutes, I got a call to end the auction and an offer at the reserve. I felt that I Had to sell for that kind of money, it was way to strong money for an XF coin, plus the fact that I was not going to be happy until I got an AU. Also, the population numbers were starting to rise in xf and au which ment more coins soon to be available on the market???, at least i thought

    Several months after that, I noticed that a west coast dealer had a raw AU 1904-s half advertised at 1900.00, I contacted him about the coin, in getting his opinion whether or not it would grade at PCGS in an AU holder. As stated most have been cleaned. I decide to pass on this coin, especially being raw.

    Not two weeks later, I see this same coin sold in a PCGS-50 holder for 2100.00, I called the dealer and confirmed it was the same coin, it was purchased for a client of his and sent into PCGS for next day grading.
    Boy talk about missing it and was I upset?

    I have not seen any for sale lately, but given an oppritunity to find a nice original AU-55 or AU-58 at the right price, I believe I would try to pursue it.

    Oh by the way ,,,, There was an absolutely beautiful NGC-63 for sale in a Heritage sig auction a while back, but it ended up going for upwards of 10,000.00 + (actually probably a bargain considering how nice it was, but out of my budget )

    jdimmick

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