Can an AT coin have the AT removed?

nwcs

Now, I know that there are many issues with this question. But what I'm curious about is whether it would ever be possible to remove (dipping is obvious) the AT from a coin without further damaging it? Anyone know enough of the chemistry and metallurgy involved to tell us about it?

coinguy1

nwcs,

The toning can usually be removed. But, that often leads to the next problem - often times the toning doesn't come off completely or evenly and/or its removal reveals whatever problem (cleaning, damage, wear etc.) might have been covered up by that toning in the first place. The toning might have also damaged the coin's surfaces

Bottom line - if a coin has been artificially toned, there is usually something wrong with it that someone was covering up. Removal of the toning doesn't solve the problem but rather, exposes it.

nwcs

Hmm, I was thinking of second generation toning. The kind to try to fool people and the grading services into bumping it into a better holder.

Neil

TomB

I'm not certain how you are using the term second gereration toning, however, if you are proposing to simply put some artificial toning onto already existing toned surfaces that are artificially toned then I would say that your chances of getting anything that look even remotely genuine are slim and none. That would not be the way that I would think you might get an upgrade.

BigD5

I had a dealer friend with a Commem. (can't remember which one at this moment). He purchased the coin raw, and sent it off to NGC, who bagged it for AT. Mind you, the coin looks good. To him and I anyway, for what that's worth. So, he sends the coin off to ANACS. They grade the coin net ms/60 details Artificially toned. Now, he's into this coin for some bucks. He's a bit frustrated. Not the kind of coin that will sell raw, "for all the money", and he kind of needs the coin slabbed to get back his investment (he paid strong money for the coin). He tried to sell the coin raw for a month or so.....no luck. Off to NCS it went for a "curation", and then off to NGC to come back blazing white, with excellent luster mind you, and a ms/64 grade. 1 point lower than what he was looking for originally. He dumped the coin, and moved on after that. If it was indeed AT, and NGC and ANACS felt it was so that should be good enough......I guess, than it was an AT coin that was dipped and had the AT removed.
It was a decent coin, and in hindsight probably had one side AT'ed to try and match the other side, as the luster wasn't even with the toning on the obv. and rev. That's all we/I could come up with.

Placid

Ncs say's on their website to send in coins that get bb'd for AT.

"It is essential to speak with an NCS professional:
after you have submitted a coin to a grading service and had it returned with a "no grade" designation for certain reasons such as "PVC," "artificial toning" or "Residue."

nwcs

Yeah, the second generation toning refers to coins that are otherwise OK that are AT'd to pop it into a higher grade (where there is a big difference in price between grades). For a while, many of these coins made it into holders. but I'm sure it's going on every day. I thought NCS could do something, but if they only dip then they'll begin eroding the die flows. That's why I was wondering what kinds of techniques can be done to remove AT but have minimal additional damage done to the coin.