Latest submission results. What does one have to do to make a PR69 '64 JFK at PCGS these days?

Russ

PCGS Order Status for Invoice # 3038414

LINE # CERT # COIN DATE DENOMINATION VARIETY GRADE
1 60053659 1964 50C PR68
2 60053660 1964 50C PR68CA
3 60053661 1964 50C PR68CA
4 60053662 1964 50C Accented Hair PR68
4 60053663 1964 50C Accented Hair PR67
4 60053664 1964 50C Accented Hair PR68
4 60053665 1964 50C Accented Hair PR67
5 60053666 1964 50C PR68CA

Date Received: 11/01/2002
Date Shipped: No Date Specified

Line number one on this submission is PERFECT. It's perfect at first glance, second glance and every glance after. It's perfect under 5X and 10X. The strike SCREAMS. There is not a nick or ding anywhere in the fields or on any of the devices. Not even the tiniest hairline anywhere. It makes the other 69s I have look like crap. And, it looks much better than the other 68s on this submission.

What the hell does one have to do? They pass out the 69 grade at the drop of a hat for coins after the mid '70s, yet they can't seem to give the grade for the earlier coins in this series.

Russ, NCNE

Placid

MadMarty

Call Charlie and complain. Have it re-evaluated before it leaves...

Russ

Marty,

On a coin at this value level, it just isn't worth the hassle. Normally I don't even submit brilliants unless they're Accented Hairs. It's just that this one was such a screamer, I wanted to find out if they're even giving 69s on these right now.

EDIT: Besides, I already hassled Charlie today on another problem.

Russ, NCNE

airplanenut

You must learn to grade

beorn

russ,if you cant get a 69 then i doubt that they can be had.

Bear

Russ - I just stopped trying untill they get their act together.

Russ

beorn,

Greg makes them sometimes on these earlier coins. I think maybe he's nicer to PCGS than I am.

Russ, NCNE

Russ

Bear,

I'd probably do that if it weren't for the fact that every other coin on the submission graded at, or higher, than I'd anticipated. Lately, my submissions have generally been right in the ballpark. It's just a little frustrating when I KNOW a coin is superior, and it doesn't get the grade. Oh well, it was basically a test coin anyway.

EDIT: BTW, the third coin was cracked out of a very recently graded 67CAM NGC holder. Compared to earlier NGCs I've bought, I thought it was much more strictly graded, but I thought they had it right at 67.

Russ, NCNE

DHeath

Russ, it's the halo effect. Sometimes when you have a chance, re-read my post re the grading distribution skew for 1971 PR69 Dcams. There are three times too many PR69 Cams, and twice too many PR68 Dcams compared to every other surrounding year. There are also five times too few PR69 Dcams. I believe there is a hesitance (maybe subconscious) to give the money coins the nod, compared to the others in the series. I believe that some of the coins that would have been PR69 Dcams in say 70 or 72 got stuffed in the wrong slots on the pop reports. Then again, we're both conspiracy theorists or we wouldn't collect Kennedies, right!

RGL

Dash my dreams, Russ ... I currently have in for grading the most wonderous 1954 Proof Jefferson you have ever seen ... deep, watery mirrors, not a mark on it and the toning. My gawd, the toning ... a crescent of rainbow toning on the obverse, deeper into the devices, fading out to the top of the lettering ... concentric circles of gold, cobalt blue to rainbow rim on the reverse. It puts all of my Jeff 68s -- every last one, and I own several -- to shame, both on grade and eye appeal. I know I am asking a lot for a PR-69 7/0 pop coin, but if this does not get it, no coin is ... But, the grade is irrelevant. Even if they drop it and fingerprint it and it comes out a 67, this is a very special coin.

Russ

RGL,

They're probably working on an every other coin basis with those that deserve a 69. Yours is next.

Russ, NCNE

presleyh

I really believe that graders have a screen in front of them when they grade a series. Where ever the great price jump occurs is one grade higher than they will give out. If a pr 68 dcam is a 50.00 coin and a pr69 dcam is a 600.00 coin you can forget the 69dcam, even if the coin deserves it. I dont think that i am so good that i can always be ONE grade below the payola coin every time, but i seem to do that a lot.

RGL

Presley: Are you suggesting my coin won't 69 because the price spread between a 68 ($175) and a 69 (not listed, but $975 on a coin offered by David Hall), it too great? (I'm All Shook Up)

Russ

RGL,

Oh oh! You have a double whammy!

Russ, NCNE

RGL

Que sera, sera -- Doris Jean Kappelhoff (stage name, Day) It's reverse psychology, Russ .. go with the flow!

presleyh

Strange you should mention David Hall. I sent in several Ikes for grading, and as I said the first money break is ms65. Mine all came back ms64. I just received an ms65 David Hall Ike and ALL of my ms 64s are more appealing than his ms65. His shipping is expensive and took 3 weeks to receive, by the way. It seems some people have a certain knack for getting better grades than others........

gmarguli

I really believe that graders have a screen in front of them when they grade a series. Where ever the great price jump occurs is one grade higher than they will give out. If a pr 68 dcam is a 50.00 coin and a pr69 dcam is a 600.00 coin you can forget the 69dcam, even if the coin deserves it. I dont think that i am so good that i can always be ONE grade below the payola coin every time, but i seem to do that a lot.

There is a reason why certain coins in the "money grade" are rarely made and that is because that is where the coin becomes hard to find in that grade. I do believe that the graders are frequently hesitant to give the money grade, but some coins will make it. It just better be a super solid or PQ coin to make it.

osirisMMII

<< <i>Russ - I just stopped trying untill they get their act together. >>



Ditto to that Bear! Russ I'm laughing my ass off! But not at you........ I feel your pain and now you know the pain I felt with my NGC 68CAM Accent Hair that came back as a no CAM PR66

Ask a rader what's the difference between a PR69 Kennedy and a hole in your head? Give up? Until you know the difference please find a new job.

MAULUMALL

I am drinking My cofee out of my NGC mug RIIIIIGGGHHHTTTTTT NOWWWW.
And truithfully Russ if you (And I Know You Know Kennedies) don't agree with the grade ,You owe it to yourself to go across the street and give them a shot.
If you say it's a 69 I would take your word.
This is my problem with PCGS.
This is why I have NO PROBLEM buying coins in NGC slabs.
But then,I buy the coin.
I would crack them and send them all to NGC and see how their grading and yours compair.

Russ

MAULUMALL,

I'm mostly just venting. In total, the submission is surprisingly good. Here's the submission with my grades in parentheses:

LINE # CERT # COIN DATE DENOMINATION VARIETY GRADE
1 60053659 1964 50C PR68 (PR69)
2 60053660 1964 50C PR68CA (PR68CAM)
3 60053661 1964 50C PR68CA (PR67CAM)
4 60053662 1964 50C Accented Hair PR68 (PR67)
4 60053663 1964 50C Accented Hair PR67 (PR66)
4 60053664 1964 50C Accented Hair PR68 (PR66) - Two points off? Huh? I'll have to take a CLOSE look at that one.
4 60053665 1964 50C Accented Hair PR67 (PR66)
5 60053666 1964 50C PR68CA (PR68CAM)

So, besides line one, every other coin was at or higher than I expected.

I guess what's most frustrating to me, is that I know line #1 is superior to every other coin on this submission, and certainly superior to the third Accented Hair that was given the same grade. I really have no problem with PCGS's current grading strictness, I've become very strict myself. It's their frequent inconsistency that is annoying.

Russ, NCNE