What Price Would You Put on This Toned Dollar?
dragon
Posts: 4,548 ✭✭
1880-S ICG MS66.......It also has a beautiful textile pattern on Liberty's cheek that doesn't show up in the scan and the colors are slightly more vibrant too. I'm going to sell it and thinking about a price, any opinions??,,,just curious what you think, thanks.
dragon
1880--S MS66
dragon
1880--S MS66
0
Comments
Im so dumbfounded by the prices being paid for toned Morgans that I'd shudder at the thought of giving you a guesstimate on something like this.
Great coin!
Frank
Maybe you should call the snake.
Textile. Monster color (great blend too) and high GEM grade.
I'd think somewhere in the $2,500.00 ballpark is right.
peacockcoins
Frank
peacockcoins
<< <i>Get it in a ngc or pcgs holder and it might sell for alot. Too many at'd and overgraded coins in icg holders in my opinion. >>
Yep. Lot's of AT in ICG, but this one isn't and anyone willing to pay anything close to the two grand++ will KNOW this one is real- regardless, or in spite of the holder it is now in.
Your point isn't lost on me though: it certainly WOULD max out its premium in the 'right' holder.
peacockcoins
1880-S ICG-66________________1886 PCGS-64
2nd-tier grading co., high grade____top-tier, near gem
nice rainbow color on obv_________nice rainbow color on obv and rev., including cloth-bag marks on rev.
common date ($200 fmv in 66)_____very common date ($50 fmv in 64)
price: ?_______________________Price: $3200 (offered $2500 by a well-known dealer)
AT-doubtful____________________AT- NOT ON YOUR LIFE.
thanks,
barney
Strange how the toned monsters are always common date coins that can be purchased cheaply in rolls or bags. One might almost suspect that someone didn't want to risk ruining a rare date MS coin..........
By the way Braddick, how did you determine this wasn't AT? I saw someone put tab toning on a commem once, I can't imagine texture toning would be that big of a trick.
I hate it when you see my post before I can edit the spelling.
Always looking for nice type coins
my local dealer
IWOG, I have been around since the 60's buying Morgans, the reason you don't see a lot of rarer date Morgans toned like this, is because they were all dipped to make them white. This was a hot topic back then in our club meetings, just as it it today.
<< <i> IWOG, I have been around since the 60's buying Morgans, the reason you don't see a lot of rarer date Morgans toned like this, is because they were all dipped to make them white. This was a hot topic back then in our club meetings, just as it it today. >>
Another reason why they are common dates is that kind of toning came from being strored in bags. The coins most likely to exhibit that toning are those that languished in vaults in those original bags for decades before being discovered. The coins from bags like that came on the market in mass quantity (litterally by the bagsfull) and are common dates because of that. That is another reason why some dates are commnly found with monter toning and some are almost never found that way.
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<< <i>my coin doctor buddy (no longer posts - booted off the forums for unknown reasons) recently gave me my 'official textile toning' mint bag AND the process to do it. takes a few weeks to make one but they do look great when he's done! . i'll probably start during the holidays. still gotta get some nice pieces to work with - and then have 'em slabbed after they're 'made'. once in a while one of the pieces looks just as nice as dragon's dollar. i did a couple of coins, with his instruction, a few years ago and did quite well with them. given the pricing power in nicely toned material today, i guess it really is worth it! >>
Great - just what we need - someone who's proud of the fact that they deceive collectors for a profit - remind me to keep your name in mind and never do business with you.
Question #1: What is 'textile' pattern and/or toning?
Question #2: Is it a term only assoicated with color toned coins, or does it apply to more general categories of coins as well?
Greg Hansen, Melbourne, FL Click here for any current EBAY auctions Multiple "Circle of Trust" transactions over 14 years on forum
Welcome to the boards. Morgan dollars were stored for many years in canvas bags such as the one shown above. Over the years, coins that were right up against the bag, were toned by the contact with the sulfur in the bag. Every so often you would get a coin where the actual pattern of the threads is visible on the coin - those are the ones referred to on here.
Frank
I'll buy all you can make that look like this.
Textile Dollar
TBT
<< <i>Great - just what we need - someone who's proud of the fact that they deceive collectors for a profit - remind me to keep your name in mind and never do business with you. >>
<< <i>Cointagious I think saying U AT coins and sell them for profit was very dumb of u to say. Sleaze >>
wake up, kids, and smell the coffee. there is a long - and accepted - tradition of curating coins in this hobby. where have you 2 been?
Stujoe expressed my sentiments exactly. It is generally that Morgans with the higher mintage figures, and thus common, or those that were minted during periods of overabundance are those more likely to be stored en masse, and subject to extensive toning.
As far as price goes, I can only say, that I would base my maximum on whether I feel the multiple applied to the coin if it were not toned seemed reasonable. For example, I just find it hard to pay $2000 for an otherwise $160 coin. Simplified, but I think you can get my gist. He!!, bid (using the sheet strictly for a number) for a MS67 is $500. I accept and acknowledge that the "toning" can make a coin unique, but, FOR MY MONEY, the price of a beautifully toned MS66 (if in fact we agree it is 66 and if not original, at least stable), should not so far surpass the price of the same coin in a relatively significant grade of "superb gem MS67" so far that I could have four uncontested 67s.
This is by no means me limiting all "toned" coins regardless of series, date, etc., nor, am I trying to indicate that all MS67 can be had a greysheet. This is just applicable TO ME in this case alone.
<< <i>Art its all a matter of taste. >>
agentjim, Very True.
<< <i>wake up, kids, and smell the coffee. there is a long - and accepted - tradition of curating coins in this hobby. where have you 2 been? >>
I know this - but at the same time, many of us have been burned by having bonafide toned coins sent back to us in body bags because someone at PCGS or NGC gets jittery about slabbing something that "doesn't look quite right". Don't take this as a personal affront because it's not meant to be. But if someone said it was alright to rob banks because it's been going on ever since banks have been around I'm sure someone would find objection to it. I'm glad you admitted your "hobby", I guess it'll just make me watch out for these type coins all the more.
Frank
Let's keep the definitions straight...artificially toning coins is not "curating." It's deception and is not generally accepted in the hobby and industry. If you think it is then when you go to sell your "work" advertise it as accelerated or toning that's been "helped."
Why is Contagious wrong if he creates toned dollars in a few days but NOT if he creates them in 5 years? How about 3 years? 1 year? At what point do you say it's not wrong? I've had Kennedy halves in a Dansco holder for 10 years. I originally thought these holders were benign enough but then I certainly wouldn't mind if some of the coins toned. Sure enough, some did. If I sell these coins am I wrong in doing so? What if my intent WAS to tone the coins over the 10 years. Am I wrong then?
Once again, this AT issue is blown way out of proportion. Either you like the damn coin or not at the price you are quoted. Otherwise why should anyone care if it's "AT" when no one can come up with a definition that makes any sense?
jom
The problem here is that there seems to be too many people buying these coins who don't know enough about toning. IMO, if you buy an AT coin (or fake or whatever) YOU are to blame for your mistake not someone else. If you don't have the knowledge then you shouldn't be buying the coins in the first place....let alone paying huge premuims. I've grown tired of the "blame the other guy" or "blame PCGS" attitude I see in the coin market. I think collectors should look in the mirror first...
jom
<< <i>...people that use the collectors to make money. >>
You mean coin dealers? lol
jom
Chemicals (and heat) don't AT coins, people do.
peacockcoins
"Who is it that runs the price up from a seemingly $200 coin to $2000?"
Your reasoning has got it backwards. Collectors pay premiums for beautifully toned coins because of their opinion regarding the eye appeal and because the toning is relatively rare and they appreciate the unintentional happenstance that created them.
The AT doctors try to cash in on this appeal by using some process they hope will duplicate the "natural" toning process that at times has created beautiful combinations of color. It's the motivation of the doctors (intent), their ability to control the outcome (certainty of outcome) and the deception (not identifying the coin as having been intentional altered) that's the problems. This practice when it goes undetected does monetary damage to the owners of toned coins in diluting the market (artificially increasing the supply) and by casting doubt in the industry about any coin that may be suspected of being ATed when its not. The deceptive marketing is a blight on the whole industry and hobby.
Cool coin. I'd say 1500 to 2200, give or take a few hundred bucks. Depends on the coin, of course, luster, location of marks, whether the
marks are toned or bright white, etc. Images are helpful but having the coin in hand is best.
If you're wanting to really put some effort into it, to max out the value, I'd try to get it into an NGC or PCGs holder. It might actually be
worth more as a P or N 65 than a ICG66.
I didn't read the rest of the thread, so I'm assuming that the reverse is essentially untoned and of no import.
Cranberry is a tough color to find in quantity. Also, the coin isn't worth the average of the opinion givers - it's worth the most that a willing buyer is willing to spend.
adrian
I know some very pretty coins in PCGS holders that are artificially toned. There are many on this board who deny it vehemently because they have large positions in this market or are profiting from it. To those of you who are considering $2000 for a $200 coin, just remember the sad tale of bourse floor beanie babies and the inevitable conclusion of any boom market. Stay tuned!
"There has been a HUGE increase in common date rainbow toned Morgan dollars in the last few years, and this can only be attributed to AT. Assuming this to be correct, paying a huge premium doesn't make any sense at all."
Wasn't this the exact same logic used to assume that the earth was flat??
dragon
No one has offered an explanation of why all these common date rainbow Morgans are available today when they were practically unheard of 10 years ago. Seems a bit strange considering nice looking toned coins have always commanded a premium, and seems stranger still when you take into account the mass dipping of ALL BU coins which occured before 1980.
To myself and a few others on this board, this anecdotal evidence is really not necessary. I know for an absolute fact that rainbow toned Morgans are being produced and getting certified by PCGS and NGC. I've seen it done with commems and I have no doubt the same process is being used on dollars and every other coin.
This market will crash, fasten your seatbelts.
Because prices have exploded and people are selling them at these high levels when they wouldn't have sold them at the lower levels.
If all or many of these coins are AT, then why aren't there more? The demand for them is MASSIVE, yet the available supply is tiny. Sure there are more than a few years ago, but the market could swallow double without a blip.