Ross, your idiocy is beyond believe! Time and time again you make accusations your feeble mind can't prove. Maulmaul is right. Carol needs to step in and take your ignorant, lying, inflaming a$$ and throw it off of this Forum.
Russ: If you meant "to say "Marshall" instead of "Michael" then thanks. Otherwise, disregard. But, in any event, I also agree with your observations in this thread. I find it hard to believe that some of these people can't carry on a conversation without getting personal. Next time I'll consider starting a new thread, because serious discourse seems to get lost in these diatribes.
Come on, DCAMTroll, own up. Who are you really? Which gutless member needed to create this fake persona because they didn't have the stones to speak their mind under their real handle. You can tell us.
More personal attacks, lying, name calling and other immature behavior. You just aren't capable of conversation without attempting to belittle someone. You are truly a small person! Just admit it. You make accusations and then have to live with the fact that you were wrong. Here is just another instance!
Yeah, DSCAM, we know YOU would never stoop that low.
I posted THIS (had nothing to do with you):
<< <i>Hey, Russ... How'd your "date with death" go? >>
And, YOU replied with THIS:
<< <i> C'mon Clark, dazzle us with that brilliant coin knowledge of yours! Hello.......anybody home??? Are you just inadequate, inept and incapable of providing even a crumb of knowledge about coins? Lay it on us baby! Dig down deep tell us about the time you found a buffalo nickel on your granddad's burueau. Something, anything!! >>
I am not a fan of restocking fees and might be discouraged from bidding in some sales that utilize them. However, I actually feel that they are fair, even if the fee is based on a % of the sale price.
I believe the % fee is fair because the seller bears the market risk while his coin is tied up beyond the sale date. And, if the market price/value of his $5000 coin drops by 5%, that is a bigger loss than he would suffer if his $500 coin dropped by 5%.
Granted, the fee might not always end up being fair (if, for instance, the seller is able to get the same price in a future sale), but as long as the buyer is made aware of it before he places his bid, I don't have a problem with it.
Yes Clark, please go to a thread, any thread, the thread of your choosing and actually say SOMEthing about coins, rather than about one of the Members. Just once, say something about coins. I don't even ask that you dazzle us. Just make a post about the subject of coins, JUST ONCE!
DCAM: Thanks for the clarifications and for pointing out my misattributions. Hopefully my first post in this thread was more accurate than the second, although it's probable few read it.
With 206, yes folks 206!, on-going auctions (right now!), Ebay is NOT cancelling mnmcoins auctions. Seems Ross has lied to us all, again. C'mon Ross, you ever going to get it right????
Oh come now, DCAMTroll. Even you're tiny slug brain can see that I didn't say they cancelled all his auctions. Strange how they certainly cancelled the one I was bidding in. You start a troll thread to go after Morris, you're constantly searching (stalking) my auctions and bids and posting links here at this forum. You are far too easy to figure out.
DCAMTroll, since Lucy looks like a fool around here, what do you think you look like to all the board members? Think they hold you in high regard? You have been a bully since the day you signed up.
Be Bop A Lula!! "Senorita HepKitty" "I want a real cool Kitty from Hepcat City, to stay in step with me" - Bill Carter
Only a sorry a$$ with no principles, no morals and no eithics will lie and accuse someone of something they didn't do and then not have the guts to admit they are wrong and apologize for the accusation.
Face it Ross, the auctions aren't being cancelled. There are 206, yes folks 206!, on-going auctions being run by mnmcoins. Right now! They aren't being cancelled.
Ross makes that kind of accusation. Then when he is proven wrong, he is too small of a person to admit he was wrong and apologize. Go belly crawl out of here.
I wasn't implying that restocking fees are evil or unnecessary, I actually indicated just the opposite, but remember I answered the post as a lawyer and not as a consumer. I think restocking fees are necessary in order to protect sellers as well as buyers, but not for the reasons you note.
It's not my or any other buyer's responsibility to indemnify sellers for potential losses they may suffer for selling a coin and basically conducting their business. If that's the reason for the restocking fee, just increase your asking price and cover your bases. Potential losses are the "cost of doing business" in a particular field.
My point was to clarify what is legal as oppposed to illegal restocking fees. Actual costs for restocking are allowable as fees, that's why I indicated that a % of the purchase price would probably be problematic to uphold on a dispute in court. Certainly a restocking fee based upon potential loss if the coin is returned would also be difficult to prove in court why your company would be entitled to such.
Perhaps the law is different where Pinnacle is located then here, but I would be careful and talk to a lawyer about it. I know you have your law degree, but I would double check just in case. I'd hate to see anyone get sued and have to waste their time and money with lawyers.
By the way, I don't think we utilize such fees in our Ebay offerings (I don't personally have anything to do with them other than occasionally suggesting a few coins to be included).
I do appreciate your perspective on this subject and I'm glad I could find you in the midst of this thread - I think I just missed a dozen or so land mines, while scrolling down to find your post.
Lucy- Seems after you had one of your little drunken margarita stuppers, calling all kinds of names, we had an agreement with Coinguy1, Mark Feld, that we would stay away from one another's posts. Yet, here you are breaking that agreement only 10 days later.
Why don't we agree to resume the terms of the agreement??
Anybody else notice that DCAMTroll's lousy spelling and grammar matches the troll formerly known as CoinDr? Just keep yapping, loser. The more you blab, the more you reveal.
DCAMFranklin, I love your icon (best looking Franklin I've seen) - did you notice that it looks tooled and artificially toned to look kinda like a Liberty Head Eagle?
I've spent the last 5 minutes reading all of these messages on this thread and am curious -
What is it you are trying to say? and do you think you can say it in 1 message rather than 15?
After reading this thread I checked out some of MNMCOIN's auctions and suggest that he alter his ebay auction descriptions to avoid further action by ebay. In his listing he states: "New website, please check my about me page for additional information. Website is updated frequently with great new material. Please contact me for particular items you do not see auctioned, I have a vast inventory and cannot list everything on ebay unless I know there is interest in that item." There are 2 obvious violations of ebay poilcy in this statement. 1) Promoting his website. A quote from ebay's rules state: "The eBay Item page can contain no URLs or links to, or promotional information about, any off eBay web page, including web sites of the seller or any third party." and 2) Offers to sell items other than the one being sold. A quote from ebay's rules state: "Offering in a listing the opportunity to purchase the item or other merchandise outside of eBay is prohibited." If he has any doubt about his actions being in conformance, he should contact ebay for a reveiw of his auctions. I have had them reveiw my auctions and they were happy to help. They WILL take action against big sellers...even Heritage had their auctions ended once for violations (and they had over $100,000 in items up at the time). As far as restocking fees go...there doesn't seem to be any rule against it, although it may turn off some buyers.
<< <i>This post was not meant to imply any legal advice to anyone and should not be construed as such. I recommend that anyone reading this who may be effected by restocking charges seek legal advice in their own jurisdiction and how your states/local laws apply, which may or may not be diffferent then the comments made above. No attorney-client realtionship as been formed by my response to this particular thread. >>
Seems Telecoin has pointed out numerous Ebay violations in mnmcoins auction listings. I guess ANYone on Ebay could have taken issue with his listing violations and reported them to Ebay, thus causing the cancellation of some auctions. Probably had absolutely nothing to do with the 5% re-stocking fee. It was DEFINITELY nothing I said to Ebay. So Ross, you EVER going to get it right??
I only asked for the opinions of Members regarding the 5% re-stocking fee. I had never seen this practice being used on Ebay and that was the first auction I had seen with such a charge. I simply stated I didn't care for the practice and linked the page. I was not aware that simply posting to this Forum gave the Member total and complete immunity from having his/her auctions linked to a thread............
Got to do it, you never know how someone out there will misconstrue your words or the meaning behind them. Further, it's really against the Canon of Ethics and law to practice law in jurisdictions were you aren't admitted to the bar, unless your doing it Pro Hoc Viche. If the law teaches you anything, it teaches you to be extra-careful. Just read Learned Hand!
Restocking fees and no return policies do not bother me. If any coin comes my way and fails to meet the description given in the auction and given by seller over the phone, that coin is going back and I will be getting a full refund back from the seller. Unless you can figure out if the seller is an unreasonable dork.
Here's a buyer's 101 course that should be followed; Ask all the right questions. Know the answers to your questions you ask. Know the quality of coin your after. If you find yourself asking the same questions twice, then three times then the seller is hiding something and is not being truthful.
Here are some questions to ask; Does this coin have any hairlines, haze or carbon spots? How deep are the mirrors? Does this proof coin have great contrast between the mirrors and devices. How long have you been a dealer or seller of coins. Is this the best or deepest or greatest contrast you have ever seen in a coin? Where are the nicks located on this coin? Are their any distracting marks on this coin? What do you think kept this coin from grading higher? There are many questions you can ask but the main idea is to get a feel for that seller.....is he honest and not pushy. Does he sound reasonable and is he taking the time to answer your questions.
More pertinent questions to the seller and these usually come towards the end of the phone conversation, especially if you still have doubts, tell the seller that you are confident about the coin and that you are planning on bidding on that coin. Then add that if you win the coin and upon receiving the coin you find problems that are contrary to your discription that it will be coming back that your expecting a full refund. If he doesn't agee to it then you can continue to ask questions or thank him and say good-bye. Once I was talking to a dealer who had several near full step Jefferson's listed in his ad and I was asking about a 1954-S MS66 near FS $795 coin. After 2-3 minute drill of questions, I summed it up by saying; now let me see if I got this straight, you have a 1954-S that grades MS66 but there is a bridge on the steps and the coin is not certfied but yet your asking $795? Thank you sir, I'll think about it, good bye. The guy was at a loss for words...uh...er... well...when I hung up.
Get good at it and learn to keep those calls short. But most of the time I have some great conversations and end up talking for 1-2 hours. Occasionally you'll come across a real good con man that will outsmart you but hopefully overtime, you'll learn from your mistakes and improve in your searches for those coins you really want.
If a seller is up front about a coin then you should have no problems. But if the coin turns out to be something totally different then what the description states or what the seller tells you then that restocking fee goes right out the window. Just make sure you and the seller are in agreement and have an understanding. Much of what I wrote doesn't neccesarily come out on the table once you build a trust or bond between the seller and yourself.
I realize there are other good approaches to negociating coins, anyone is welcome to add their two cents.
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
DCAM, I feel your thread was not in any way meant to be damanging to the seller. You were solicitating opinions on a business practice. But the thread went WAY downhill from there. Haven't the last few weeks taught us all how damaging personal attacks are to each other on this board? A difference of opinion is healthy, mudslinging is not.
<< <i>DCAM, I feel your thread was not in any way meant to be damanging to the seller. >>
abmluce,
Of course that was the troll's intent. It's not the first time he's attacked Morris. I'd suggest you do a search on his handle and read all the garbage he's regularly barfed up since joining this forum before you defend him. He has never contributed a thing about coins beyond attacking other collectors for their choices.
He's never posted a coin, never talked about his coins, refuses to reveal anything of substance at all. He's either another member using a second handle, or simply a liar and a fraud. Most here already know that. Spend some time reading his claptrap and you'll see.
He lied right here in this thread when he said:
<< <i>I only asked for the opinions of Members regarding the 5% re-stocking fee. I had never seen this practice being used on Ebay and that was the first auction I had seen with such a charge. >>
It links to an auction from JWCameo who, surprise surprise! charges a restocking fee of 5%, the same as Morris. Of course, that thread was also just troll bait, since he had no intention of actually buying the coin, and when called on it made up some BS about looking at a Franklin from the same seller.
Comments
Russ, NCNE
More personal attacks, lying, name calling and other immature behavior. You just aren't capable of conversation without attempting to belittle someone. You are truly a small person! Just admit it. You make accusations and then have to live with the fact that you were wrong. Here is just another instance!
I posted THIS (had nothing to do with you):
<< <i>Hey, Russ... How'd your "date with death" go? >>
And, YOU replied with THIS:
<< <i> C'mon Clark, dazzle us with that brilliant coin knowledge of yours! Hello.......anybody home??? Are you just inadequate, inept and incapable of providing even a crumb of knowledge about coins? Lay it on us baby! Dig down deep tell us about the time you found a buffalo nickel on your granddad's burueau. Something, anything!! >>
Prime example of unsolicited, moronic, TROLLING.
Russ, NCNE
oooops sorry for caps
I am not a fan of restocking fees and might be discouraged from bidding in some sales that utilize them. However, I actually feel that they are fair, even if the fee is based on a % of the sale price.
I believe the % fee is fair because the seller bears the market risk while his coin is tied up beyond the sale date. And, if the market price/value of his $5000 coin drops by 5%, that is a bigger loss than he would suffer if his $500 coin dropped by 5%.
Granted, the fee might not always end up being fair (if, for instance, the seller is able to get the same price in a future sale), but as long as the buyer is made aware of it before he places his bid, I don't have a problem with it.
Just click the subscribe icon, check the box next to the thread and click unsubscribe.
Russ, NCNE
You're a funny little fruit.
Russ, NCNE
"Senorita HepKitty"
"I want a real cool Kitty from Hepcat City, to stay in step with me" - Bill Carter
David
Face it Ross, the auctions aren't being cancelled. There are 206, yes folks 206!, on-going auctions being run by mnmcoins. Right now! They aren't being cancelled.
Ross makes that kind of accusation. Then when he is proven wrong, he is too small of a person to admit he was wrong and apologize. Go belly crawl out of here.
I wasn't implying that restocking fees are evil or unnecessary, I actually indicated just the opposite, but remember I answered the post as a lawyer and not as a consumer. I think restocking fees are necessary in order to protect sellers as well as buyers, but not for the reasons you note.
It's not my or any other buyer's responsibility to indemnify sellers for potential losses they may suffer for selling a coin and basically conducting their business. If that's the reason for the restocking fee, just increase your asking price and cover your bases. Potential losses are the "cost of doing business" in a particular field.
My point was to clarify what is legal as oppposed to illegal restocking fees. Actual costs for restocking are allowable as fees, that's why I indicated that a % of the purchase price would probably be problematic to uphold on a dispute in court. Certainly a restocking fee based upon potential loss if the coin is returned would also be difficult to prove in court why your company would be entitled to such.
Perhaps the law is different where Pinnacle is located then here, but I would be careful and talk to a lawyer about it. I know you have your law degree, but I would double check just in case. I'd hate to see anyone get sued and have to waste their time and money with lawyers.
Michael
MW Fattorosi Collection
By the way, I don't think we utilize such fees in our Ebay offerings (I don't personally have anything to do with them other than occasionally suggesting a few coins to be included).
I do appreciate your perspective on this subject and I'm glad I could find you in the midst of this thread - I think I just missed a dozen or so land mines, while scrolling down to find your post.
Why don't we agree to resume the terms of the agreement??
Russ, NCNE
"Senorita HepKitty"
"I want a real cool Kitty from Hepcat City, to stay in step with me" - Bill Carter
Just kiddin' but I had to wave atleast one foot over a landmine.
Michael
MW Fattorosi Collection
I've spent the last 5 minutes reading all of these messages on this thread and am curious -
What is it you are trying to say? and do you think you can say it in 1 message rather than 15?
As far as restocking fees go...there doesn't seem to be any rule against it, although it may turn off some buyers.
<< <i>This post was not meant to imply any legal advice to anyone and should not be construed as such. I recommend that anyone reading this who may be effected by restocking charges seek legal advice in their own jurisdiction and how your states/local laws apply, which may or may not be diffferent then the comments made above. No attorney-client realtionship as been formed by my response to this particular thread. >>
You're DEFINITELY a lawyer
I only asked for the opinions of Members regarding the 5% re-stocking fee. I had never seen this practice being used on Ebay and that was the first auction I had seen with such a charge. I simply stated I didn't care for the practice and linked the page. I was not aware that simply posting to this Forum gave the Member total and complete immunity from having his/her auctions linked to a thread............
Got to do it, you never know how someone out there will misconstrue your words or the meaning behind them. Further, it's really against the Canon of Ethics and law to practice law in jurisdictions were you aren't admitted to the bar, unless your doing it Pro Hoc Viche. If the law teaches you anything, it teaches you to be extra-careful. Just read Learned Hand!
Michael
MW Fattorosi Collection
Here's a buyer's 101 course that should be followed; Ask all the right questions. Know the answers to your questions you ask. Know the quality of coin your after. If you find yourself asking the same questions twice, then three times then the seller is hiding something and is not being truthful.
Here are some questions to ask; Does this coin have any hairlines, haze or carbon spots? How deep are the mirrors? Does this proof coin have great contrast between the mirrors and devices. How long have you been a dealer or seller of coins. Is this the best or deepest or greatest contrast you have ever seen
in a coin? Where are the nicks located on this coin? Are their any distracting marks on this coin?
What do you think kept this coin from grading higher? There are many questions you can ask but the main idea is to get a feel for that seller.....is he honest and not pushy. Does he sound reasonable and is he taking the time to answer your questions.
More pertinent questions to the seller and these usually come towards the end of the phone conversation, especially if you still have doubts, tell the seller that you are confident about the coin and that you are planning on bidding on that coin. Then add that if you win the coin and upon receiving the coin you find problems that are contrary to your discription that it will be coming back that your expecting a full refund. If he doesn't agee to it then you can continue to ask questions or thank him and say good-bye.
Once I was talking to a dealer who had several near full step Jefferson's listed in his ad and I was asking
about a 1954-S MS66 near FS $795 coin. After 2-3 minute drill of questions, I summed it up by saying; now let me see if I got this straight, you have a 1954-S that grades MS66 but there is a bridge on the steps and the coin is not certfied but yet your asking $795? Thank you sir, I'll think about it, good bye.
The guy was at a loss for words...uh...er... well...when I hung up.
Get good at it and learn to keep those calls short. But most of the time I have some great conversations and end up talking for 1-2 hours. Occasionally you'll come across a real good con man that will outsmart you but hopefully overtime, you'll learn from your mistakes and improve in your searches for those coins you really want.
If a seller is up front about a coin then you should have no problems. But if the coin turns out to be something totally different then what the description states or what the seller tells you then that restocking fee goes right out the window. Just make sure you and the seller are in agreement and have an understanding. Much of what I wrote doesn't neccesarily come out on the table once you build a trust
or bond between the seller and yourself.
I realize there are other good approaches to negociating coins, anyone is welcome to add their two cents.
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
But the thread went WAY downhill from there.
Haven't the last few weeks taught us all how damaging personal attacks are to each other on this board? A difference of opinion is healthy, mudslinging is not.
my hotels
<< <i>DCAM, I feel your thread was not in any way meant to be damanging to the seller. >>
abmluce,
Of course that was the troll's intent. It's not the first time he's attacked Morris. I'd suggest you do a search on his handle and read all the garbage he's regularly barfed up since joining this forum before you defend him. He has never contributed a thing about coins beyond attacking other collectors for their choices.
He's never posted a coin, never talked about his coins, refuses to reveal anything of substance at all. He's either another member using a second handle, or simply a liar and a fraud. Most here already know that. Spend some time reading his claptrap and you'll see.
He lied right here in this thread when he said:
<< <i>I only asked for the opinions of Members regarding the 5% re-stocking fee. I had never seen this practice being used on Ebay and that was the first auction I had seen with such a charge. >>
Read this thread the troll posted just recently.
It links to an auction from JWCameo who, surprise surprise! charges a restocking fee of 5%, the same as Morris. Of course, that thread was also just troll bait, since he had no intention of actually buying the coin, and when called on it made up some BS about looking at a Franklin from the same seller.
Russ, NCNE