ANACONDA asked for examples of bargains and ripoffs in both moderns and classics: Here they are.

wingedliberty

Bargains.

1.Classics: Any Barber half in true XF or higher. I can't see a single person on this forum who will
not agree with that. Obviously a denomination that circulated that heavily with such
high attrition and cleaning. Surviving unmolested Barbers in XF+ are tough.

2.Moderns: BU Ike dollars in MS67+. If someone tries to tell me that there are plenty out there, I
have already begun to laugh. If someone tries to tell me they are overpriced, I will
begin to laugh even harder. If someone tries to tell me that an MS67 1881S Morgan dollar
is more scarce than a 1978 or 1978D Ike in the same grade, I will laugh uncontrollably.


Ripoffs:

1.Classics:
1904-O dollars before the hoards came raining in, and also the 1881S dollar in MS65!!!!!!!,
Abundance is an understatement. I can have a nice Buffalo dollar, of which there are
fewer in mintage alone!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!, obviously they grade higher, but the 1881s is also
abundant in MS67.
2.Moderns:
1986S Statue of Liberty proof half dollar, I think they minted over 7,000,000. Talk about
oversaturation for a commem. Thank GOD for 500,000 limits.


I love both classics and moderns. Collect what you enjoy , but know what you are buying.


Brian.

mdwoods

BU Ike dollars in MS67+. If someone tries to tell me that there are plenty out there, I
have already begun to laugh. If someone tries to tell me they are overpriced, I will
begin to laugh even harder

There are 19 MS67 Ikes for the 1976 D Type 2 Clad. What would you say a fair price for one would be? Thanks, mdwoods

wingedliberty

I would think $600.00

wingedliberty

It would be nice to see one in high grade.


Brian.

pontiacinf

perfectly said and executed Brian, I couldnt have done better.

wingedliberty

I like you little band of characters.


Brian.

cladking

I've had some great luck recently. Looked through a bunch of mint
sets and found a '76 tI that should go MS-66 (67 is a long shot), It's
the most proof like I've seen on this coin though not the highest grade.
Also found a '81-P type D reverse quarter. This is a find in itself, but
this one is the only high grade example I've ever seen.

These would have to be bargains since they were regular price. (high
retail).

wingedliberty

Please post the Ike if you don't mind. A nice photo would be cool to drool over.


Brian.

DHeath

I just paid $10 for a 1981 type II proof set in which all 5 coins are T-II, and the SBA will PR68-69 Dcam. Actually, I bought a date run of 72-82 Proof sets for $100, looking for Ikes and Bi-centennial dcams. Occasionally, I find something interesting. I believe I can sell the SBA ungraded for enough to pay for the other coins. Was that a bargain? The 76 T-1 clad Ike is very nice. Hey, after the SBA, they were all a bonus.

dragon

It really makes no difference what the pops are in certain grades, it matters how many people want one and how popular the series is. There are literally 10's of thousands of Morgan dollar collectors that would want an 1881-S in MS67, so even if the pop. on that coin triples down the road, it will still be a coin that collectors want and will pay several hundred dollars for. There are pop. 1 darkside coins in very high grades that are incredibly cheap because nobody collects them, hence...pop. 1, demand 0.


dragon

Typetone

The 76D Type 2 IKE in PCGS 67 would actually run about $3,000 today. I sold one about a year ago for $2,800, and have been unable to replace it closer to $2,000. In addition to being desired by IKE collectors, it is also in demand by type collectors looking for a bicentennial. The 76D Type 2 is the only C/N bicentennial IKE realistically purchasable in 67. The Copper/Nickel 67 IKES are incredibly rare. Depending on the pop and look, they go from $3,000 to $10,000 today. While I appreciate the comments on condition rarity, I will say that most 67 C/N IKEs are magnificent and significantly and obviously better than the much cheaper 66s. They truly are the well-made cream of the crop in what was generally a poorly made coin.

Greg

jom

<< <i>While I appreciate the comments on condition rarity, I will say that most 67 C/N IKEs are magnificent and significantly and obviously better than the much cheaper 66s. >>



Unless the grading services have somehow "distorted" the grading there shouldn't be any big difference in a 67 vs. a 66. For the money I'd much rather have the 66. Also, 10 years ago everyone talked about MS65 being "the thing", now it's MS67. Gradeflation?

Dragon: Agree. The demand/supply effects price so if there are significantly greater demand for 81-S dollars than 76 Ikes then they could end up being worth the same price. In math they would say Price and Rarity are independent variables.

jom

PS: BTW, I dispute the idea that ANY Ike can be "magnificent" (lol)

ARCO

Finally - Some words of reason about Scarcity and hype!!

Tyler

cladking

<< <i> There are literally 10's of thousands of Morgan dollar collectors that would want an 1881-S in MS67


dragon >>




This isn't rocket science. Think a minute. There are ten's of thousands of people who would want
an 1881-S Morgan in MS-67! The Ike was mostly ignored for many years, and now a small HANDFUL
of collectors want one. This small handful of collectors has pushed the price up to "astronomical"
levels.

What will happen if demand continues to grow? What if it reaches a small percentage of the demand
for the '81-S ?

What can you infer from a tiny demand pushing the price sky high? Besides all the buyers being stark
raving mad, what is the implication about the supply?

What are the likely trends for demand? Most Morgan collectors are wealthy older men and the newer
collectors tend to be younger. Which set is easier or cheaper to put together in MS-67? MS-65? MS-60?

There are many more questions, but let's try just a few at a time.

wingedliberty

I would have no problem making the same statement about Ike collectors, whether type collectors
or series collectors in high grade. This forum has about 300 members and at least 20% would fall
into that category.


Brian.

cladking

ttt

DesertLizard

Realistically, how high can the IKE go before most collectors are priced out of the series? Suddenly, less demand and prices come down to earth. Maybe that;s the eventually outcome for IKE's?

I can think of 4-5 series where the coins are 100+yr old with mintages under 100,000 and there few collectors so the prices are ridiculously low. Many collectors think the prices are high because the coins are old so they don't collect the series. End result, bargains galore and no to zero competition.

cladking

The wholesale price on circulated business strike Ikes is $1.30 The
entire set will run about $17 without the mint set only '73's. A little
cherry picking would yield a very nice set with some nice full strikes.
Two years ago the set was available for $14.

Sure, as prices go up the competition gets thinner. But these coins
exist for almost any budget so those priced out of the high end coins
always have the option of buying the MS-64/65 Ikes. These can be
quite attractive and challenging also.

There are not large numbers of the just missed Ike gems either though!

There are not enough MS-63 Ikes to sustain a mass market. An unc set
with some nice attractive pieces can be put together for about $50.

wingedliberty

I agree with cladking 100%.



Brian.

DRG

DesertLizard; Realistically, how high can the IKE go before most collectors are priced out of the series? Suddenly, less demand and prices come down to earth

40 years ago high grade Morgans were considered expensive when they were selling for a few hundred dollars, these are the same coins that sell for many thousands of dollars today.

Maybe that;s the eventually outcome for IKE's?


Not to mention the SBA$. When I put together my SBA$ collection they were selling for anywhere from $30 to $600. $600 being the price for a POP #1 MS68 and $30 for an average MS67. These same coins now sell for $150 to $300 for a MS67 and the MS68's can not be found for the most part and when they are go for many thousands of dollars. Maybe this is "irrational exuberance" and the bubble will burst, maybe this is only the beggining and it is 1960 for the modern dollars. Only time will tell.