For you Franklin lovers

1907Quarter

tonight is the exciting conclusion to one of our forefathers' documentary. Watch it on PBS at 9PM local time.
So last night we learned he was a true ladies man among other things! Lucy, will you be watching??!

ANACONDA

I saw it last night. Franklin was a genius but he was wrong about the most important thing.

He said essentially that God would give salvation to those who made life better for others.

adrian

mdwoods

He said essentially that God would give salvation to those who made life better for others.

Can you disprove this in a court of law? mdwoods

edited to correct spelling.

eminem

What should he have believed Adrian?

CLASSICS

it was within a great plan that franklin and those like minded where to be born, and cast into a part for thier time, none would understand during thier lifetime the inportance their actions would have and how the world as they understood it would change. within these great thinking minds that have long passed into dust, the only thing that still remains, are whose who beleive in them for their times.

LucyBop

I love Mr. Ben Franklin, he was a genuis....However, I too would disagree with his formula for salvation. In the Gospel of John, Chapter 14 vs 6 I think... Jesus says He is 'the way'..'the truth' and 'the life' and noone comes to the Father but through him....If Jesus was telling the truth ( and I believe him) then the only way was to accept his finished work on the cross......... The Father according to Jesus only threw down one rope, that was his son, nothing else, if you could get in merely by good deeds then the Lord Jesus Christ died for no good reason......

KlectorKid

It's all to complicated for me

ANACONDA

'you on the money, Lucy!'

All that God requires is that you believe in Jesus Christ, which quite frankly (no pun intended) makes sense.

(If you wanted to give something to someone you loved, would you require that they earn it?)

And for those of you who say "this is a coin forum", my retort would be, how can you enjoy coins if your very continued existence
is in jeapardy? Get saved, maximize your enjoyment in numismatics. It's as simply as could be.

adrian

pmh1nic

I'm not quite done reading a pretty good biography on Franklin (The First American by H.W. Brands) but I do know that Franklin's concept of God changed during his lifetime. I don't know what his ultimate view reguarding salvation was at the very end of his life but he made a very strong statement regarding the Hand of Divine Providence with respect to winning the Revolutionary War and the establishment of the United States. I won't make a judgement about his ultimate view of salvation based on one or two statements without know when he made them and in what context.

CLASSICS

<< <i>'you on the money, Lucy!'

All that God requires is that you believe in Jesus Christ, which quite frankly (no pun intended) makes sense.

(If you wanted to give something to someone you loved, would you require that they earn it?)

And for those of you who say "this is a coin forum", my retort would be, how can you enjoy coins if your very continued existence
is in jeapardy? Get saved, maximize your enjoyment in numismatics. It's as simply as could be.

adrian >>

...........all very good points indeed,.......as the body without spirt is dead...so also faith without works is dead.............james 2:26

CLASSICS

and if a small bird falls to the ground and god knows about it.....surely he will not forget us...ben franklin

ANACONDA

Classics - I agree - if you have faith, you will have works.

Faith without works IS dead.

adrian

Morganluver

Yes, accepting Christ as your personal savior IS the road to salvation and eternal life, but don't you think that being kind to your neighbors and treating people the way you want to be treated(the Golden Rule again) is a totally integral part of this state of mind and soul. Think about it. If you have accepted Christ as Lord and Savior and you still acted like a jerk to others and were selfish and self-centered, do you really think God would say, "that's ok, he's accepted me as his Savior and even though he is a real a$$hole to everyone he's still ok in my book." I don't think so. That would make it too easy. One can't say one thing and do another. That's not the way it works. Actions and deeds are more important and carry more weight than you might think. You can't have your cake and eat it too IMO.

meos1

My two cents... If you are open to his will, listen to his message, prepare well, and follow closely, you will be saved by His grace.

Let's move back to our regularly scheduled program.

Morganluver

Agreed. "It's neither the swing of the pendulum that goes to and fro, but the essence that drives it that makes us go."

Dave Gardner

relayer

All that God requires is that you believe in Jesus Christ,

Umm..I guess that means the Book of Deuteronomy was merely a list of suggestions

ùìåí
(shalom)

wallstreetman

One simple rule covers it all," Do unto others as you would have them do unto you"! Remember, you can fool man but you cant fool God, he knows the real reason behind your actions! Its all common sense my friends, dont try an make it complicated!

eminem

If you believe in Jesus and accept your "ticket" to heaven then the proof (coin term) is the way you act and the things you do. (works) Surely God will not have set up a plan of salvation that allows one to just say "I believe so let me in". It is just as easy to say "I believe so I'm assured heaven". Now I'm gonna lie cheat and steal and there is no way I won't get to heaven. "I believe" MUST compel one to act a certain way. What way? Christ is the example. The devil believes that Jesus was the Son of God. Does he get to heaven??

Gilbert

I too would like to add, "believing in Jesus" in itself IS NOT your salvation, but the DOOR to your salvation. There is just a tad more required for your admittance, as far as Christian beliefs go.

BTW, and while the topic is about religious ideals, it brings to mind that: I really like some of the Vatican City issued coinage. Does anyone here collect it also?

ANACONDA

I lead a simple life. Part of the simplicity is that I don't engage in activities that are pointless like trying to determine who goes to
heaven and why and why not. I have my hands full with all that is productive.

But, if you're going to investigate the fellow that our calandar takes it cue from and his plan of salvation, you might as well go
to the source, i.e. the most widely sold book in the world, the Bible. You can go to the Pope, your neighbor, the guy at the bar, your
intellect, your parents intellect, WHATEVER, (obviously you're free to believe anything or anyone you want - it's your everlasting life.
And if you're looking for an excuse to do whatever you want, my toughts are you can fool anyone you want - you have free will -
but why fool yourself of all people, about the most important thing, your salvation?) in your most important search, but you might
want to consider Christ's words as posssibly the best source for what is "required."

I just know what the Bible says, over and over and over and over again. And what it says, among other things, is that all you have to
do is believe. You can interpret "believe" as you see fit. It's your salvation. You have to work it out "with fear and trembling."

Christ said "I am the way, the truth and the light. No man comes to the father but by me."

So, with regard to the devil and whether he's going to heaven, you'll have to find that out from someone else. I have my suspicions
but does it really matter?

What does realy matter? Only very few things in the long run. How about only your salvation and the salvation of those you love?
Every man longs to live forever -- can't you feel it in the very depts of your being? You were made to live forever, now the challenge
is how to do that. Only you can undertake your search.

Here's the problem. A belief in Jesus naturally results in action, a changed lifestyle. A change in focus. This is, in my opinion, the
largest impediment to an individuals' acceptance of Christ as the focus. Who wants to give up all that "fun"?

........you might eventually. It really isn't that much fun anyway compared to another life. Trust me, been there, done that, for the
most part.

But, when an individual gets his belly full of it, and that happens from time to time, and he wakes up in the dirt, or sits there in the
lab waiting anxiously for the aids test results, or his wife finds a note from his mistress and the uhs and hhhmmms have run their
course, then sometimes a different focus seems a wee bit more palatable, not just for here but forever.

But hey, the responsibility of a Christian isn't to persuade, it is to scatter the seed. Some of the seed falls on rocky ground, other
seed is overtaken by the weeds. Some of the seed germinates but withers rapidly. I suspect, though, that some of the seed lays
there dormant for years, maybe even decades. Waiting.

adrian

wallstreetman

Jesus is the son of God, and so are you and I! When he said you come to God through him, he meant through his beliefs and faith, any doubt and you stay out!

wallstreetman

Read the Bible with a spiritual mind and not a material one, like the people who wrote it, youd be surprized how much more you get out of it! But always remember, the Bible is still a book, how much of what you read do you believe?

pmh1nic

Now you know I love having this discussion but that's why we have the open forum.

During his life Franklin's hands were in many pies, from lightening rods to coins to philosophical societies, the fire department, militia, printing, oceanic navigation and politics (to name a few ). He had a tremendous impact on society in many areas and a significant part in the establishment of the United States. If longevity means anything the short run of the Franklin Half really doesn't do justice in reflect the great contributions he made to this country.

ANACONDA

Yes, Franklin. An interesting man, indeed. Did you know that he appears on a piece of US currency holding a string that is attached to a flying kite? There is a small boy watching him and a bottle of what appears to be libations, on the ground.

pmh1nic

Adrian you tease...picture please .

mnmcoin

<< <i>All that God requires is that you believe in Jesus Christ,

Umm..I guess that means the Book of Deuteronomy was merely a list of suggestions

ùìåí
(shalom) >>



Deuteronomy is part of the Law of Moses, and on a broader scale, part of the Old Covenant. Jesus Christ came to fulfull the promises of the Old Covenant by establishing a New Covenant. Deuteronomy as part of the Law, was fully inspired by God and thus great pearls of true wisdom, but as Christ and human nature shows us, we have all fallen short of the Glory of God, and there is no one on earth that can fulfill all of the law...even Moses failed. God is a holy, and no one can come in His presence with sin, and since no one can be holy and sinless, except Christ, we need His blood to cover over our sins.

Gilbert, you are correct when you say believing in Jesus will not save you...heck, Satan believes in Jesus. You must believe that Jesus Christ was God himself, died on the cross, and rose again on the third day...conquering sin and death in the process. After you believe that, you must submit yourself to a growing relationship with Jesus Christ and that means completely and wholy coming under His authority in everything you do. Not just getting your fill and let go, run out and then come back to Him...complete and total submission to His will. Once He sees that you are under His authority, He will honor you by making you holy and blameless, and allow you to grow. But there is nothing you can do to make your salvation complete. Dr. Spurgeon [sp] has a great quote..."God is not in debt to anyone." God is the author and finisher of your salvation. His grace is the only neccessity for it.

The great man Apostle Paul says it himself in Philippians 1:21 "For to me, to live is Christ and to die is gain." If we come under His authority in everything, God honors that and shows us His glory in Christ. Life on earth with Christ is reward enough, as Paul wrote from a prison in Rome and after the glory of that, when we die we are sealed in the position of His son in heaven...and that is the icing on the cake.

this will conclude today message from the pulpit...sorry, for preaching, this is however more important than any coin or anything else for that matter, and you have to take every opportunity presented.

morris <><

God Bless America and,
America Bless God