I didn't take it as a slam. I took it as your opinion. We certainly can't know what's going to happen in the future.
Personally, I think a really good place to put your money is into early (1793 thru 1836) material, the highest grade you can afford buying about 6 to 12 coins per year.
I must confess to being confused. In reference to the MS66 Roanoke you bid moon money on (and were the underbidder, when it brought $17,000), you said "Bid was only $260.00 on that puppy."
Why would you bid that kind of a premium on a "dog"?
Everything (especially the stock market) is a risk in the future. Skill and knowledge removes some or most of the risk. That's why I only invest in my own business.
I quit dealing with my local dealer last year because he was getting too comfortable spending my money filling my want list. I asked him not to fill any more items until I got back to him. About two weeks later I got a call that he had bought $5,000 worth of items on my want list. I wished him luck in selling them to someone else.
Spend to your level of knowledge and skill. Most "dealers" are really "brokers." I hate brokers. Many times they go out and find something that meets the minimum of your requirement, and try to increase their margin.
I like dealers who would buy the coin for themselves and would be proud to own them. I have found a few dealers like this, and I am comfortable engaging them. I am also comfortable passing up a coin they have because I know they wouldn't be selling it unless they were proud to own it. I feel better about buying a coin that someone else has taken the risk to own. They are invested in the coin, which is what I want to be.
For years I wanted to add one of the only two certified 1950-D ANACS 66 6 step Jefferson nickels to my collection. It was do or die when one finally came up in a Teletrade auction. And I got it, at $800. I don't recall the starting bid but I do know I missed the deadline for placing a max bid. At times there, I really thought I was bidding against myself. But towards the end the bidding was esculating, and I won.
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
As I have said many times before, if you REALLY want an education coins, try selling them.
Agree...the corollary is, "The worst time to sell is when you need the money".
"My friends who see my collection sometimes ask what something costs. I tell them and they are in awe at my stupidity." (Baccaruda, 12/03).I find it hard to believe that he (Trump) rushed to some hotel to meet girls of loose morals, although ours are undoubtedly the best in the world. (Putin 1/17) Gone but not forgotten. IGWT, Speedy, Bear, BigE, HokieFore, John Burns, Russ, TahoeDale, Dahlonega, Astrorat, Stewart Blay, Oldhoopster, Broadstruck, Ricko, Big Moose.
Frank If you had been around (2) years ago,you'd have thought me nuts.I place a max bid of $1,000 on a Heritage auction for a 1937 PR66 RD PCGS Lincoln.Everyone said it was (4x's) grey sheet ask.A few months later when PCGS started attributeing Cameo's to the early date Lincolns,I submitted it for designation review.The rest is history.So there is no over "bid" on a coin you have to have.I speculated and came out on top.It was the very first early date Lincoln to receive the Cameo designation.
Doug - I never service want lists - that's a really good way to get stuck with a coin you reached for or to turn a client into a guy who grinds he teeth when he sees or thinks about you (if you shoved a coin down his throat - something i don't do).
I like to buy coins I can live with, coins that please me. My thinking is, if I like it (I think I know what is desirable) then someone else will too.
I also just paid "stupid" money for an NGC 1936 PR66CAM Lincoln. Time will tell whether it was stupid or not. I feel that this coin is a true rarity, and will still be worth a rarity for years to come. The frost on this one just doesn't exist on other specimen's. I have two other PCGS 66red's, and one came from the same die as the CAM. The frost is substantially weaker.
I feel that PCGS was hard on the 66 part, but would not be able to deny the Cameo. This area is also "off the sheet" and only time will tell whether or not more show up. I know that many people are out there trying to make them in a PCGS holder, and it's just not happening.
Trime, I dunno if you can count rare varities, but I did. I paid $800 for a 1841-O seated dime in G4, again I paid another $750 for yet another 1841-O seated dime in G4. As is, they should have sold for @ $8 max or so, except these were the closed buds reverse, large & small O varities.
Sean J Re-elect Bush in 2004... Dont let the Socialists brainwash you.
You two have hit on an interesting and sometimes difficult situation with respect to want lists.
We "service" a good number of want lists but, depending upon the situation and who the client is, we handle different lists in different ways. For instance, we often buy coins for inventory, which we know to be on a single want list or multiple want lists. In those cases, we will contact the client who gave us the list (if more than one list is on file, we give priority to the first list received) and let him/her know that the coin is available if they want it.
Other times, we might locate a coin which is on a want list, but the price is high enough so that we would not buy it for inventory at that price level. In those cases, we might call the client from a show and say " we found such and such coin, we don't own it, we're being quoted x and if you would like to buy it, we can sell it to you for Y."
Some of our clients have enough confidence in our knowing their wants to say, "if you like it, I'll take it at that price." Other times, we might ask the owner of the coin if we can have the coin on consignment to be able to offer it to our client on a sight-seen basis. When we do not own the coin in question, we typically work on a smaller margin, as we have no funds tied up in the coin, no market risk and no desire to bury our clients.
On some occasions, the prices we are quoted for particularly low pop coins seem ridiculous. In those cases, if the coins are on want lists, we still let the clients know about them, tell the clients that the prices seem too high and let the clients decide if they want to pay those numbers. We often discourage customers from paying numbers which we think are too high. But, in the end, it is the client's decision.
Rarely, do we buy a coin, just because it is on want list, if we would not feel comfortable buying it, even were it not on a list.
I see that this post has gotten off the original topic, per se. But, some of the coins we buy and sell, are at multiples of published prices.
Personally, I think a really good place to put your money is into early (1793 thru 1836) material, the highest grade you can afford buying about 6 to 12 coins per year. I like this area also. I would love to pick up a 1795 $ Small eagle. It would take my PCGS vf20 Assay octagon $50 to do it. I don't think there is a coin in that price range I would rather have than my fiddy (that fifty in ubonics for all you non hipsters). I guess my quest for a 1795 will have to stay a dream. OK... stop crying, I'll live.
Forever. That’s not what we have on this earth. Time is precious. I don’t want to squander it bantering over this. Peace. Adrian -- ANACONDA
Anaconda didn't say that did he? thats just way to freaking profound for a snake.
Double-O Jim, many collectors don't realize that the market doesn't fluctuate that much with coins like you are talking about. I would love to have an octagonal fiddy. The true rarities are always in demand regardless of economic conditions. Players may swing with the markets, but it doesn't affect their lifestyles. (I know I'm not a player because I wouldn't hesitate to rachet down my coin budget if I was taking a bath on an economic level).
I've knowingly (and unknowingly for that matter) overpaid multiples if I like a coin. Who's to say you overpaid until you sell it??? Within the last year, I have bought an AU 55 1878 8TF Morgan for $2,500, and a BU 60 for $3,000. Sound crazy? They were VAM 44's. Still sound crazy? A VAM 44 went in the Binion Teletrade auction a few weeks ago for $3,100 in EF!
Mark: My local guy was not telling me what he could get the coin for. I'm always in favor of the middleman making something! What you describe would be OK with me. In fact it is the same arrangement I have with two brokers now whose eye I trust. They will call sometimes from a show and tell me what they can get it for and what they would tack on for their fee. I don't hesitate to pay them either.
Comments
Personally, I think a really good place to put your money is into early (1793 thru 1836) material, the highest grade you can afford buying about 6 to 12 coins per year.
adrian
I must confess to being confused. In reference to the MS66 Roanoke you bid moon money on (and were the underbidder, when it brought $17,000), you said "Bid was only $260.00 on that puppy."
Why would you bid that kind of a premium on a "dog"?
adrian
I quit dealing with my local dealer last year because he was getting too comfortable spending my money filling my want list. I asked him not to fill any more items until I got back to him. About two weeks later I got a call that he had bought $5,000 worth of items on my want list. I wished him luck in selling them to someone else.
Spend to your level of knowledge and skill. Most "dealers" are really "brokers." I hate brokers. Many times they go out and find something that meets the minimum of your requirement, and try to increase their margin.
I like dealers who would buy the coin for themselves and would be proud to own them. I have found a few dealers like this, and I am comfortable engaging them. I am also comfortable passing up a coin they have because I know they wouldn't be selling it unless they were proud to own it. I feel better about buying a coin that someone else has taken the risk to own. They are invested in the coin, which is what I want to be.
Just my humble opinion.
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
Agree...the corollary is, "The worst time to sell is when you need the money".
If you had been around (2) years ago,you'd have thought me nuts.I place a max bid of $1,000 on a Heritage auction for a 1937 PR66 RD PCGS Lincoln.Everyone said it was (4x's) grey sheet ask.A few months later when PCGS started attributeing Cameo's to the early date Lincolns,I submitted it for designation review.The rest is history.So there is no over "bid" on a coin you have to have.I speculated and came out on top.It was the very first early date Lincoln to receive the Cameo designation.
Registry 1909-1958 Proof Lincolns
I like to buy coins I can live with, coins that please me. My thinking is, if I like it (I think I know what is desirable) then someone else will too.
adrian
I feel that PCGS was hard on the 66 part, but would not be able to deny the Cameo. This area is also "off the sheet" and only time will tell whether or not more show up. I know that many people are out there trying to make them in a PCGS holder, and it's just not happening.
I dunno if you can count rare varities, but I did. I paid $800 for a 1841-O seated dime in G4, again I paid another $750 for yet another 1841-O seated dime in G4. As is, they should have sold for @ $8 max or so, except these were the closed buds reverse, large & small O varities.
Re-elect Bush in 2004... Dont let the Socialists brainwash you.
Bush 2004
Jeb 2008
KK 2016
You two have hit on an interesting and sometimes difficult situation with respect to want lists.
We "service" a good number of want lists but, depending upon the situation and who the client is, we handle different lists in different ways. For instance, we often buy coins for inventory, which we know to be on a single want list or multiple want lists. In those cases, we will contact the client who gave us the list (if more than one list is on file, we give priority to the first list received) and let him/her know that the coin is available if they want it.
Other times, we might locate a coin which is on a want list, but the price is high enough so that we would not buy it for inventory at that price level. In those cases, we might call the client from a show and say " we found such and such coin, we don't own it, we're being quoted x and if you would like to buy it, we can sell it to you for Y."
Some of our clients have enough confidence in our knowing their wants to say, "if you like it, I'll take it at that price." Other times, we might ask the owner of the coin if we can have the coin on consignment to be able to offer it to our client on a sight-seen basis. When we do not own the coin in question, we typically work on a smaller margin, as we have no funds tied up in the coin, no market risk and no desire to bury our clients.
On some occasions, the prices we are quoted for particularly low pop coins seem ridiculous. In those cases, if the coins are on want lists, we still let the clients know about them, tell the clients that the prices seem too high and let the clients decide if they want to pay those numbers. We often discourage customers from paying numbers which we think are too high. But, in the end, it is the client's decision.
Rarely, do we buy a coin, just because it is on want list, if we would not feel comfortable buying it, even were it not on a list.
I see that this post has gotten off the original topic, per se. But, some of the coins we buy and sell, are at multiples of published prices.
I like this area also. I would love to pick up a 1795 $ Small eagle. It would take my PCGS vf20 Assay octagon $50 to do it. I don't think there is a coin in that price range I would rather have than my fiddy (that fifty in ubonics for all you non hipsters). I guess my quest for a 1795 will have to stay a dream. OK... stop crying, I'll live.
Forever. That’s not what we have on this earth. Time is precious. I don’t want to squander it bantering over this. Peace. Adrian -- ANACONDA
Anaconda didn't say that did he? thats just way to freaking profound for a snake.
I've knowingly (and unknowingly for that matter) overpaid multiples if I like a coin. Who's to say you overpaid until you sell it??? Within the last year, I have bought an AU 55 1878 8TF Morgan for $2,500, and a BU 60 for $3,000. Sound crazy? They were VAM 44's. Still sound crazy? A VAM 44 went in the Binion Teletrade auction a few weeks ago for $3,100 in EF!
Mark: My local guy was not telling me what he could get the coin for. I'm always in favor of the middleman making something! What you describe would be OK with me. In fact it is the same arrangement I have with two brokers now whose eye I trust. They will call sometimes from a show and tell me what they can get it for and what they would tack on for their fee. I don't hesitate to pay them either.
PS: Anaconda really said that!!!!