Is this a PSA 5?

Mantlefan · November 16, 2002 8:38AM

Seller is claiming "he wuz robbed" on this card. First of all, don't show submission cards serial numbers start with "6" or "7"? Secondly, 3 of the corners look "4" quality to me.

1952 Mantle on EBAY

1420sports · November 16, 2002 8:53AM

I think that is a very nice PSA 4, believe me on that as I have tons!

I wonder if the comments in the description are accurate ..... I hope not.

aro13 · November 16, 2002 8:58AM

It is a decent 4. It would be a very low end 5 in my opinion.

qualitycards · November 16, 2002 9:37AM

I don't know what is more commonplace, a prison inmate declairing he is innoncent. Or an eBay seller stating that the grade he was given is too low. On almost every eBay auction you read that the "7" shouldda been an "8", or "I was robbed" or "PSA must have had a rough day" or "The big dealers get all the breaks" ETC... I'm at the point since I read this stuff all the time, that I believe none of it. I look at the scan of the card, see what grade it was issued and bid accordingly...jay

Philabuster · November 16, 2002 10:40AM

That was very well put Jay. I'm in the same boat that your in. Reading that junk really drives me crazy also. I'll believe the first person that says his eight should have been a seven but not until then.

downgoesfrazier · November 16, 2002 12:39PM

Philabuster,
Guess you believe me then. I routinely comment on the grades of the cards I sell. I use words like "conservatively graded" or "super high-end" for the percieved hose-jobs,
"Fairly graded" or "A nice, solid seven" for an obvious grade and "This card got the benefit of the doubt" or "generously awarded a PSA ?" for the sliders that even a Mother couldn't love. I've had all types. There are a few guys on eBay that when they say "undergraded" I bid strong. After a while, you can tell who's shoveling the toilet fodder.

To the thread topic: If you've looked at a clean stack of 52's in PSA 5 recently you'd be amazed how clean and bright those cards can be. Generally some technical problems like centering usually is the culprit. Light staining or even a light surface wrinkle (not a crease) can holder an otherwise sharp, pretty card as a 5. I've seen MANY 85/15's on NM+ stock in 5 holders...Quite frankly, I do not believe this seller was told "If it was a common..." and further this card got the benefit of the doubt on that 4. Lots O' layers on those corners and the LL is missing a fair amount of stock...take the 4 and run!!!

mikeschmidt · November 17, 2002 9:46PM

There is no way that a PSA grader would make a comment like that. This person is trying to sell a story -- one to make him more money. And at the end of the day, it is still just a story. If he felt so strongly about the undergrade, wouldn't he have spent the $50- to crack it and have it re-graded? Or graded by SGC? The bottom line is that this card, off-centered, has two well worn corners. There are a ton of nice cards out there that only receive the PSA 4/5 designation for a variety of reasons. The official designation says:

VG-EX 4: Very Good-Excellent.

Corners may be slightly rounded. Surface wear is noticeable but modest. May have light scuffing or light scratches. Some original gloss will be retained. Borders may be slightly off-white. A light crease may be visible. Centering must be 85/15 or better on the front and 90/10 or better on the back.

You've got one rounded corner and three other corners with wear. And, there may be other issues that are clearly not visible in a scan. Sometimes scuffing and creases don't show up well at all in a scan. Logic to me dictates thus: If this card were truly a PSA 5 -- this seller would not "sacrifice" thousands of dollars in this perceived slight. He would re-submit. There are precious few times when someone claims a card is overgraded -- and the stories of undergrades are exactly that. You should either buy into the PSA system and accept their grading standards and grades -- or not buy into the system and sell your cards raw or graded by someone else. Otherwise, you are just left with a bunch of whining shysters that are trying to bilk an unsuspecting public for more money.

MrKissKissBangBang · November 17, 2002 9:54PM

I never believe descriptions like that.
An experienced, unobjectionable, and paid grader, took a close look at this card and deemed it a 4.
That's what it is. And it does look 4 even from the scan.

brucemo · November 18, 2002 1:20AM

If that card was mine, and it had no wrinkles or other nonsense, I would call it a 5. The picture is very nice, there appears to be no surface wear, the centering is certainly acceptable, so what it comes down to is corners. If the corners are there but worn, I would call it a 5.

I can understand how some would call it a 4, but I can't imagine why someone would suggest that it's not even a 4. It seems obvious enough to me that it is a 4 *at worst*.

Regarding believing people, I think that a lot of the time people say something is undergraded when they know for sure that it isn't, but a lot of the time they really do think it's undergraded. Of course, if you disagree with my previous paragraphs, you understand how come that isn't a very good indicator of anything.

It is hard to deal with low-end cards. I figure if you are going to rave about half of your cards you should rant about the other half. Rather than do this, I'll say something is high end only if it's really obviously high-end. I'm more inclined to do this with my 6's than with cards in higher grades, since if I sent something in I probably expected better than a 6, so the card probably really is a slider.

Sometimes I believe it when someone says a card is high-end. It does happen. I bought a "high-end" pretty big dollar 7 a couple of years ago, agreed with the guy, and decided that if we both thought it was high end, maybe it was. I broke it out, sent it in, and it came back a grade up.

If I were this guy, what I would have done is sent it back to PSA and had them review it. It doesn't take very long, and it's worth it. I don't think that I would have broken it out first, because that's too risky for me. But it would have been smart to let them take a look.

bruce

downgoesfrazier · November 18, 2002 2:26AM

soft 4.

murcerfan · November 18, 2002 6:48AM

I know this seller, he is a pretty straight shooter and seems like a decent guy.
He does the bigger shows and I can't see him making up a bunch of crap just to milk a couple hundred extra on this. I made a nice deal for a couple psa8 '52's at the last Ft. Show. they are beauties.He is sharp enough to re-submit, no question.

I'm sure he is refering to Danny, whom maybe was being a bit too forthright for the party line. Then again, when was the last time anybody got a "slider" on a major card ?
I'm sure there are psa 5 commons that compare with this 4, but not too many Mantles.
The serial number beginning with 5 is consistent with a few of the cert numbers I got back at the National (some also began with 9).

waitilltheytrytosell · November 18, 2002 7:55AM

The card was displayed at the National and Fort Washington. Obviously a lot of people have seen the card in person, and made their decisions based on the merits of the card. Their decision was made holding the card in their hand. If the highest offers he could draw were between $5000 and $5200, then they weren't thinking about a PSA 5. It's a great looking 4, and worth more than all other 4's which aren't as nice as this one, but not as much as all other 4's which are nicer than this one.

Is this a PSA 5?

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