eBay Sellers Problem - Any Suggestions ?

Lori

I had a few Silver Eagle Coins I sold on ebay. This AUCTION ended with the buyer paying right away. I offered free shipping but did not state anywere that the free shipping included insurance. I ship all my items first class mail (not coins). I have my mailing receipt showing it was shipped on Nov. 1st first class mail. The buyer stated it is the correct address. He still has not received his package. I am in WI and he in IL. Should have been a few day trip at the most. Today I get an email stating he wants me to refund his money because he did not receive the coin and he assumed I was going to send it insured. I told him no because it was his resonsiblity to ask if insurance was incuded with my free shipping.

I was wondering the boards opinion on this.

1. I have a receipt of mailing

2. My auction does not state I ship insured.

Am I in the wrong? Should he not have asked if insurance was incuded before paying?

Thanks for any opinions.

Lori

PS I am hoping he does not ruin my perfect feedback of almost 5000.

tjkillian

Because of the post office and all the different kinds of Ebay buyers, I would ship any coin worth more than $20 insured, regardless of who pays for the insurance. I would put on every auction that the buyer pays for the insurance. $1 or $2 is worth the price of peace of mind. You cannot prove that the buyer received his coin, so I believe you should make it right with him.

Tom

Lori

So I am suppose to be out the coin I shipped and out the money I have to refund him. He is the one that did not pay or ask for insurance. That just dont seem right.

Lori

MadMarty

I also insure or at the least pay the 50 cents for delivery confirmation. You have no way of proving that the buyer ever received the coin. You have two options, refund hi money and take the hit or do not refund his money and take the negivive feedback hit. When I post my auctions, I state the shipping with $50 ins is $5.15 (priority mail and ins). If they want more they have to pay $1.30 per $100 ins. I have not had any complaints. I started doing this when I shipped out a coin and the buyer stated he never received it. I had no way of proving or disproving this, so I refunded his $23. It's called CYA....

Outhaul

Personally, if it says nothing in the auction about insurance, I assume it is MY responsibility. If there is a doubt in my mind, I'll e-mail the seller. When I'm selling, I state in my auctions that insurance is NOT optional. I do not ship without it and if you aren't willing to pay for it, then don't bid.

I think you're in the clear, Lori.

JMHO

Cheers,

Bob

Endocrinologist

Lori,
I would still wait. Once I bought a coin from a dealer on Ebay and it didn't arrive for almost three weeks. I politely emailed him weekly about the coin not arriving. He politely told me that the coin was shipped. He told me that we should wait at least 30 days before any action (30 days was the minimum amount of time that the USPS required prior to filing an insurance claim - that's what he told me). Sure enough, the coin arrived about 3 weeks late. I know he mailed it because he scaned a copy of the insurance receipt to my zip code that was mailed the day of the auction plus the package was postmarked 3 weeks old.

Another possibility is the address may have been written wrong. One seller got my zip off my 1 number and it took 3 weeks for the coin to arrive.

So, my advice is to politely tell him that you mailed the coin, send a scan of the receipt and ask him to please wait at least 30 days. If the coin doesn't arrive, then (gulp) I would refund his money. It would be hard to swallow, but maybe you could consider it "self insurance". If you don't refund his money, and he negs you, no big deal though - no one's perfect.

Good Luck

Endo

lathmach

I just got a letter mailed from about 20 miles away postmarked a month ago.
Tell the buyer to wait a bit.

Ray

Lori

I understand what you are saying about shipping with insurance. I dont sell coins very much but decided to get rid of a few Eagle coins I had. I thought I was being nice giving free shipping. I am sure this buyer would have said nothing about the insurance thing if his package got there fine.

If in doubt he should have asked considering it does not say anywhere that I ship insured.

Lori

Rampage

If I am not mistaking, it is up to you, Lori, as the seller to make it right if the buyer says it was not recieved and you did not insure it. I think this is a law, but am not sure. I seem to remember something like this coming up in another forum and the law was copied and pasted for all to read for us. Ever since then, I insure everything regardless of value and I charge the buyer for it. So, you now should say, lesson very well learned with a 90 dollar item and refund his money.

coinguy1

Lori,

I don't claim to know what the right answer is, though I suspect that each of you bears at least partial responsibility.

However, you asked for people's feedback and you are getting it, in the form of some very thoughtful replies. But, I feel like you are arguing with the very people trying to help you, if they don't agree with you. Try to stay cool, listen to what people suggest and keep an open mind. It's often worth the effort.

Lori

I guess I am in shock at what you guys are saying. I have proof of mailing, he can not prove he did not get the coin (however I believe him). You are telling me I am to blame for this? He did not pay for insurance nor did he ask for it. I just cant believe this. I thought I was the one in the right but I guess I was wrong.

Lori

airplanenut

You didn't say insured. While it would have been smart to insure it, you never claimed insurance, nor did the buyer check to see that it was insured. If you can prove that it was mailed (which you did) then it is the buyers fault, IMO. Anything valuable I get shipped I make sure it is sent insured so it doesn't get lost- this buyer should have done so.

Jeremy

RalphP13

I say wait some more.

I had a shipment take 3 weeks as well. The seller shipped it when he said he did - It Just took that long.

I'd give it a month before I assume it is truley "lost"

Twowood

Before any refunds are made I would wait for at least 30 days to transpire. Snail mail sometimes takes weeks to go a few miles. In the future,I'd ask for delivery confirmation if you don't go for insurance. Twowood

MrLee

<< <i>So I am suppose to be out the coin I shipped and out the money I have to refund him. >>

If it helps any, your only out the coins. You could only be out both if you paid him to take the coins.

I had sent an expensive fishing reel to Japan and forgot to get insurance. If it hadn't arrived, I would have refunded the money. It was the ethical thing to do. I was sweating it for TWO weeks. Fortunately he received it.
Always remember "The insurance is for me."

sinin1

Lori - it even gets uglier with higher valued coins that are insured that the post office loses (or post office, employee steals, or delivering post office fails to scan package so delivered but not by PO records)

The buyer claims they did not receive the package and says it must the sellers fault (packaging?) so wants their money back RIGHT now. Someone has to push the insurance claim through (4 different entities have to fill out sections on claim form - sender/senderPO/receivingPO/receiver). If it has a value over $50 then it must go to Kansas city for the insurance claims division to disapprove it (they will want more information - like PROVE it was worth what you claimed it was worth) - if less than $50 the sending post office can pay from petty cash.

You should read other posts about people sending coins to PCGS that did not get delivered last March - and their attempts to get insurance claim paid.

Sorry, I don't have any great suggestions, someone loses even if insured (time/money/confidence/listing fees/paypal fees/shipping cost) when package not delivered/misplaced -> bump up your shipping costs and self-insure low valued items, but use delivery confirmation

goldenpony

I send everything priority mail with delivery confirn. Even a $5.00 coin gets sent this way. The buyer is paying s/h, so why not send it this way.

I also require insurance for everythign over $50.00. Anythign under $50.00 I offer it, but with the tracking number that helps.

As for you problem, I do believe the buyer is correct in asking for a refund.

onthespot

I sold a marble last month, and the check arrived three weeks after the close of the auction, with extra postmarks on it, and the first one was the date the buyer said he mailed it. Who KNOWS what the USPS does? As Cliffie said, in one episode of Cheers, "Heck, a fella can just dump a whole sack of mail down the sewer, and no one will know... Ahem, or so I've heard..."

BIGDAVE

What ever you sell always put a tracking #on it, it cost .55 cents but it is worth the peace of mind, i have had 8 people in the last 3 months say it was "lost" i just go to usps.com and type the tracking #in then email them and tell them the date and time they got the package, i also give them the # to see for themselfs. I have never had a package lost.. knock on wood

As a seller it is your responsibility to make sure he gets the coin ,i make no mention of ins in my auctions,BUT, every coin i ship is insured and Tracked , it is in your Best interest to do so, i was shipping every coin REGISTERED mail till i got scolded on the Board

coppercoins

A real sticky issue...

1. Goods were paid for - no arguement.

2. Service (delivery of the coin) was not rendered - the buyer did not receive the item.

With that being the case, an "official" company doing business would pony up the dough, credit, or a like item - no matter who's fault it was. Best thing to do is cough it up and chalk it as a lesson learned, and don't give the option in the future. Send it insured regardless and charge the buyer for it making sure you explain that in the description - "my way or the highway".

bennybravo

<< <i>"The insurance is for me." >>



Mr. Lee nailed it Lori.It's an unfortunate situation.He sent payment, and if you didn't put a disclaimer in your auction about not being responsible for lost merchandise due to lack of insurance, I would say that the buyer should get the refund.On an $89 item, I would assume the seller would insure it, so I wouldn't bother to ask someone with feedback as nice as yours either.4000+ sales with 1 neg would make you a safe bet in my mind, so I would just assume that you knew better.(no offense, remember that you asked.)

Lori

No offense taken. I dont sell coins. I sell items under $10 and do not ship anything insured. If an auction does not say insurance included in the shipping cost, I would assume that I need to pay for it or ask. This buyer did not ask until after the package went missing. Lesson learned, I will not sell items over $10 or Never do free shipping again. HA. I thought I was being nice and giving free shipping. Oh well. Thanks for all the opinions. I asked the buyer to wait until Dec 1st. That would be 1 full month since shipped. Hopefully it will show up by then.

Lori

coppercoins

Rule #1 where eBay is concerned....don't assume ANYTHING. Anything you leave out will always come back to haunt you in the form of something going wrong or some idiot making sure you pay for what you forgot to say.

Dog97

loriannk1 you ask if you were wrong.

Mailing a $100 coin and failing to protect yourself and your buyer is wrong. You tried to save a little money by not insuring and now it's causing you problems. It IS NOT the sellers responsibility to ask you to ship it properly.
I see your a powerseller with great feedback and if you want to keep it that way you had better wait a little longer to see if the coin turns up and if it doesn't then refund the guy's money. True, he might have received the coin and be shanking you but you will probably never know.

The law Rampage refers to does indeed state that if you take someone's money you must provide them the product and just because they were nor offered or declined insurance does not let the seller off the hook. It was posted by the admin at ErrorWorld some time back.


Let me ask you this; just how did you ship this coin & how much did it cost you?
You could have shipped it insured for $100 using PS Form 3813, which is the blue form and requires a signature from the recipient, in a bubble mailer for $2.57.

IrishMike

I would make it a practice to require insurance. I have in all my auctions just to avoid these type of situations. If the buyer doesn't want to pay the little extra for the insurance, let them buy elsewhere. As far as a refund, I would wait like others have suggested then let my ethics dictate the next course of action.

prooflike

You should have gotten a statement that he declines insurance and accepts the risk. There is a fiduciary responsibility for the seller to provide the product when paid for, especially in a contractual sale such as an auction.