What to do? You decide....Part II

danglen

I recieved a lot of good comments and suggestions on this topic in my earlier thread "What to do? You decide....." I have started a new thread hoping that some of the earlier responders to this thread can review the new information that has developed. Since then I have had an email from the buyer that follows:

"Hi,
I received your 1921 NGC ms 65 morgan dollar. Your photograph of the coin shows it as blast white and fully struck. The coin is off white with yellow streaked semi mottled toning and NGC was very generous with the grade as there is a nice cut in the neck as well as a few other cuts in the coin. Looks 64 if anything to me even though I know that 1921 morgans do not come that nice. I very rarely return purchases as you can see from my feedback but you must look at your picture of the coin and compare to the return
when you receive it.
Please refund my purchase price of $84 when you receive coin and send check to:
XXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXX

I am sorry for the inconvenience but I was trying to upgrade my PCGS ms64 1921 but it is nicer than this NGC 65."

I have drafted the following response to the buyer but will not send it until I have had time to get some additional input from this forum:

Hi,
I acknowledge receipt of your coin via Federal Express. While doing your minute examination of the coin pictured in the images, you obviously missed the section in my "Terms" that says "I don't offer return privileges on coins unless I misgrade them, etc." Having established this fact, I am willing to send you a refund in the amount of $81.67, which I arrived at as follows: Funds you sent via PayPal of $86.79, minus PayPal fees of $2.82, eBay listing fees of $.30, S & H fees of $2.00. I will recover the Final Value Fee from eBay once I file a Non-Paying Bidder Alert with eBay, so there is no need for you to worry about that. My check will be mailed to you as soon as I see that you have posted positive feedback to my account regarding this auction, as I don't want to run the risk of going through all this only to have you leave me a less than positive feedback comment. There is no need for you to reply to this email, although you certainly may do so if you so desire. As soon as I see your feedback posted in my feedback record I will follow through with my part of the deal.
From your feedback file I see you have a history of returning slabs that don't please you. In the future, if you want to upgrade your PCGS set, I would suggest you stick to bidding on PCGS encapsulated coins, just not any of the ones I might have up for auction.
Regards,

goose3

nice "velvet hammer" writing style. Gets the point across politely with a subtle kick in the arse!

dbldie55

I thought you could get paypal fees reversed for a return just like any credit card. Is this not so?

danglen

You can get PayPal fees reversed if you refund the full amount that was paid, but if I did that I would wind up eating the shipping charges and listing fees. I don't know of any way to get PayPal fees reversed on partial refunds.

Lakesammman

Nicely written, though I would still block them in the future.....you don't have to tell them now.

supercoin

Well, if you want the honest response... you come across as a jerk in that letter. My guess is he already knows you don't have a return policy, that's why all the justification to return it. But it could be that he's just a nice guy on a limited budget trying to upgrade his set.

Either way, you're not going to make your life any easier trying to convince him that he's wrong.

I would just nicely point out that as stated in your auction you don't normally accept returns. But since you don't want him to have a coin he's unhappy with, you are happy to refund everything you can without incurring out-of-pocket costs.

Definitely leave out the parts about feedback hostage and condescending advice as to what he should purchase in the future.

EDITED TO SAY:

Actually, now that I think about it... I'd just Paypal him the $84 he requested along with a "sorry you weren't happy with the coin" and be done with it. Is it worth $2.33 for another back-and-forth round of e-mails?

Life's short... move on as quickly as possible. Hey, what am I doing spending my time writing this??

DCAMFranklin

Now you plan to hold him as a feedback hostage? I totally disagree with that portion. Send him the "net" refund, as you describe. Let the feedback fall as it may.

Loki

<< <i>Now you plan to hold him as a feedback hostage? I totally disagree with that portion. Send him the "net" refund, as you describe. Let the feedback fall as it may. >>

Agreed. You can always explain the situation with a response. I would also make him aware that you will file a NPB form with an appropriate reason so the tone of the email comes out more positive. That way, it is very unlikely he will neg you.

darktone

I would just give in and return the amount he asks for as it will be the easiest and fastest way to resolve the matter. As stated by Supercoin is it really worth all the hassle for a couple of dollars and run the risk of getting a negative? Also put yourself in the buyers shoes and look at it from his point of view- he thinks he was misled by the picture. I think I have a return rate of 5 per thousand so In the long run it's only a couple of cents per deal to cover these small problems. good luck and I hope it's resolved so you are both happy. mike

1956Quarter

AMEN Supercoin. I agree....

crito

I may be mistaken, but read somewhere that it's against ebay rules to charge buyers for your listing fees. If he forwards your email to ebay, could get you NARU'd.

UncleJoe

You have apparentely decided to refund him for the coin.

I now see it as Supercoin points out, you are deciding to send him $81.67 instead of the $84. he requested.

I think you have already spent more time and had more angst over this than can be justified for $2.33. It isn't worth it.

Send the refund he requested and apologize for his disappointment. Yes, apologize, he should see you as an honest seller, might even give you positive feedback and will certainly be willing to bid on future auctions (of course, I am assuming there was at least some truth to what he wrote you).

Joe.

danglen

Uncle Joe,
At this point I haven't really decided what I'm going to do (although I do have a pretty good idea, and will post my final actions and let the chips fall where they may). But you are mistaken about the angst. I really haven't lost any sleep over this, I thought it would be an interesting thread we could all learn from. If you have read the whole thread, I believe you will agree that there are a wide range of opinions on the proper course of action.

UncleJoe

I agree that there are a lot of different actions you could take.

Unfortunately, I feel this board more often than not tends to go for the jugular before giving the benefit of the doubt.

I was just suggesting that you don't get caught up in that and take an action that may prove to be more beneficial to you in the long run.

Joe.

CarsonCityGold

This bidder obviously feels that rules and guidlines are for everone else. Their feedback shows that they have done this before. Your no return policy was clearly stated. Making a refund only enforces their arrogant behavior and promotes them continuing to do this to you and other hard working Ebay sellers. The issue is NOT the money.

danglen

CarsonCityGold, I totally agree that the money is not the issue here, and regardless of what other final action I take, this bidder will be blocked from my auctions in the future. One of the neat things about eBay, is that I can have some control over who bids on my auctions, at least the second time around. Reminds me of that old saying, "Screw me once, shame on you, screw me twice, shame on me"

crito

Disputes over a NGC/PCGS grade should be handled by the slabbing co. You think the NGC 65* is really a 64, send it to NGC with your auction receipt for a refund. That's what I paid them for and what I expect the grade guarantee to cover. Not making Legend "whole" for their own mistake, a lot of good that does for the hobby. They could make hundreds of average collectors "whole" again for the price of one Laura

Petescorner

I agree with the proposed letter with the exception of the feedback thing. In eBay transactions, there are three items of consideration (or value): The money, the item, and the feedback. EBay works well to a certain extent because there's always a trade off of these items.

In other words, you trust me by sending the money. (I'm +1)
I extend the trust back to you by sending the coin, and posting FB. (You're +1)
You post FB for me, and we're all even and happy!

Right now, you have the coin and the money (+2) and asking for positive FB, (which would make you +3) before you send back the money and leave FB yourself.

As a buyer, I would feel trapped right now. And even though it was my mistake to not read you return policy (or ignore it, as the case may be) I would still squeal like a stuck pig to eBay about what you're doing to me.

Bottom line is I would send back the money, less all the fees you can think of, and if the buyer wants to trade neg feedbacks with you, then I think you'll look better than he/she based on the facts.

Oh, and I like the comment about sticking to PCGS coins. Obviously this buyer isn't keen on his/her perception of NGC's grading, so why does he/she keep bidding on them and causing aggravation for sellers?

barrytrot

Why would you have a no return policy?

I guess that is up to you, but a no return policy sets you up as the villian immediately and your response doesn't help to turn you into a good guy.

I've bought a bunch of coins and returned one. I don't know if that person had a return policy or not, but they were nice to me and gave me my money back and didn't send me a flame email.

I think that you might make an extra $2 to $4 on this with your route (Wooo Hooo) but with the route of the "nice guy" you may make a friend and you will prevent that person from thinking you are a bad guy which honestly is worth nothing but is nice to have (sort of like Modern Coins

danglen

Barry, I have given my reasons for a non-return policy in previous threads, but here it is again. I sell a lot topical coins (dogs, cats, ships, trains, etc.) to non-numismatists, who don't have any idea on how to properly handle a coin. The majority of the material I sell is raw, uncirculated coinage. After having had returns of a few coins that left my place as BU, but came back as smudged XF/AUs, I instituted a no return policy. Of course, if someone gets one of my coins and writes me a cordial email asking if they can return it for whatever reason, I usually acquiesce. As stated in the past, I have absolutely no problem with someone not bidding on my auctions because of a no-return policy. But if they do, they should have some responsibility for their actions. For all of the people who have suggested that I treat this person with extra consideration because they may become a good customer in the future, I really appreciate your comments, but please understand I want absolutely no part of this person's business from this point on.

DCAMFranklin

Danglen- Since money is not the issue, just send him a FULL refund, including S&H, by PayPal. Let the feedback fall where it may. Please don't hold the guy a feedback hostage.

I really don't mean any disrespect, however, I have to make the suggestion that you not sell on Ebay. Your inability to see the transaction from the buyers' perspective, is going to lead to many problems in the future. If you are not able to "work" with people to find common ground and help them to feel GOOD about the transaction, then it is only going to lead real problems in the future. Just my opinion. Good luck!

danglen

DCAMFranklin, with 3400+ positives and 4 negatives, I must be doing something right . On the other hand, in my brief sojourn on this board I have noticed that you have managed to alienate a significant number of the members. How did that happen? It might have something to do with the type of comments you just made to me.
What I did in the three threads I posted was solicit input from the community. Although I didn't agree with everyone and am certainly capable of forming my own opinion, I took every suggestion under consideration....even yours. Nowhere did I say what action I was going to take, until I took it. Does the saying "open mouth, insert foot" ring a bell? I know.......... you're probably a member of the diplomatic corps, and if you're not, you missed a great career opportunity.