What to do? You decide...

danglen

I sold a 1921 Morgan Dollar on eBay (item #1393507579), graded and encapsulated by NGC as MS-65, the final price including shipping was $86.79. Just got it back today with a note that read "Send $ to: (Buyer's Address)". This was an auction that I started at $1.00 with No Reserve. The Terms section of my auction, as well as my invoice plainly state "I do not offer return privileges on coins unless I misgrade them, in which case I will happily refund all your fees including shipping costs". What course of action should I take, besides blocking this bidder from bidding on any more of my auctions? I'll let the Board decide this one.....

nwcs

Well, it is the same coin and they sent it back. I think the best course is to explain to them what your policy is and that you will send them a refund minus shipping charges. If they have a problem, they can pay shipping and get the coin back. Since you were very clear in your policy, you have no obligation to do a full refund. But I think the refund minus shipping is the easiest way out of the problem.

relayer

I'd go ahead and refund the auction price and get your final value fee credit from ebay for the return.

The lookie-lou gets to pay Shipping both ways and you are only out your original listing fee and have your coin back to relist.

There are a lot of morons out there and they just aren't worth hasseling with. I'd also block them from bidding on your auctions.

kranky

I know your auction says no refunds but even so, I'd send a refund minus shipping charges. Anything else has the potential to turn into a big hassle.

goose3

agree with everyone else.
some sound advice.

robertpr

I agree, refund minus shipping both ways, but I'd also subtract the eBay fees too. Block the bidder. Wait for him/her to leave feedback first, and don't leave a neg unless they do. I'd post a neutral feedback.

banknote1

I guess< I would send refund minus shipping cost. I am not sure I would block the buyer, it depends on why he sent the coin back?? Although, you did state no returns! I would like to add I don't bid in no return auctions on ebay, myself. A scan or photo of a coin is just not like looking at the coin in person.

DCAMFranklin

If he had contacted me prior to mailing the coin, I would have been willing to offer a partial refund, perhaps. However, he just mailed the coin with no communication, the coin is a 3rd party certified coin, with a return privilege that is clearly intended for raw coins, I would package up the coin and send it back to him. Ebay does not require a return privilege. Ebay is an auction! It is not a retail store with full retail costs and a full return privilege. Don't let the jerk keep you a feedback hostage. If he pops you, he pops you. People really don't give much credence to a stray negative here and there.

danglen

I have no problem whatsoever in someone not bidding on my auctions because of a posted no return policy. But remember, I started the auction at a dollar, with No Reserve on a coin that in an NGC65 holder can sell sight unseen for more than it sold for on eBay. Had I started the auction at $135.00 (Trends), it would have been a completely different story. The reason I don't offer a return policy on my coins, is that I sell a lot of topical coins to non-collectors, who don't understand it's a no-no to hold a coin with their thumb on the obverse and their fingers on the reverse. After getting back a couple of raw coins that went out of here as MS-65 but came back as XF/AU, I instituted the No Return policy. At this point I'm inclined to agree with the answers to my post. It's definitely not worth the hassle, and I can resell the coin for more than this joker paid for it in the first place.

MikeSettles

Refund less shipping and definately block the bidder. If he objects to paying the shipping he might fool with your auctions.

wayneherndon

I agree with everyone else. Send a refund less shipping charges, get your selling fees back from eBay, block the bidder and withhold feedback.

I'd also recommend you reinstitute a return policy. I firmly believe that that is the right thing to do in sight-unseen situations (I even consider a good scan sight unseen). Craft it to protect yourself, such as requiring that the coin not be removed from your holder.

Obviously, it is your right to do it as you want but I would encourage you to re-evaluate the return privilege.

Also, while it may not be applicable here and is a very seldom followed or enforced rule, ANA members who deal in coins are required to offer a return privilege on non-bullion items of at least 10 days. This comment is a general comment and not intended for you in particular. It is particularly good to file it away in your mind some place. If you ever have a transaction go bad with an ANA member it is another way to help force them to make it right.

WH

JLW

I agree with the majority here, if you send it back, you have to eat the shipping, insurance, etc. This way you can relist, probably get more the 2nd time around, (cover the first listing fees), and you have one more buyer you know not to sell to.
Joe

danglen

By the way, I just checked my archived invoice and see they paid with PayPal which charged me $2.82 on the transaction. Should I deduct that amount from the refund as well?

goose3

I would email them and politely explain the situation to the bidder. I would tell him his refund will be coming back LESS S/H and PAYPAL fees and ask if he wants it back via PP or check.

wayneherndon

I eat the PayPal fees but I think either way is appropriate. Ordinarily it should be spelled out in the auction which way you handle it. However, since you specified no returns and are being generous in giving one, I think the buyer would be hard pressed to complain about that in this case.

One trick if you're refunding the entire amount: Click on the details of the PayPal transaction and you'll see a link to refund the payment. If you do this, the whole transaction is reversed, meaning you get your PayPal fee back and they get their payment back. Trouble is, you can't withhold the shipping portion if you do this.

WH

JLW

I would deduct that as well, they are lucky to be getting anything with a "no return" policy.
Joe

Lakesammman

Tell them you'll return the coin to them once they send funds to cover your shipping costs...block bidder too. You've basically wasted 2 weeks for nothing, no return on time/money investment, etc. If you give him a refund, the rest of us are bound to run into this uneducated buyer in the future...time to educate.

sinin1

You didn't say how they sent it - don't do anything for awhile (gives you time to think and keep both the coin and money).

Was there insurance/confirmation on the return? You could do what the seller who sold a counterfeit gold piece to me did - after a couple weeks when they email you, claim you never recieved the shipment and to check their USPS numbers to see where the package is, and you are surprised they would try to return a coin that specifically stated in the sale "no returns" especially before making contact with you about a possible return policy.

danglen

They returned the coin via Federal Express Priority, using the Goldman Sach's business account to do it. If I were a GS stockholder, I don't know that I would be real happy about that. In any event, I would not keep the coin and the money. Just because they happen to be jerks, doesn't mean I need to stoop to their level.

copperhead

Ditto to what the others here have said. Return funds minus the Shipping charges and block the bidder.
GOOD LUCK Whatever you decide to do.
AL

sinin1

So they had their company spend $15-$20 to return a coin to you?

I did not mean to imply that you keep everything forever - just make them sweat awhile - when they email you, ask them who their supervisor is a Goldman Saks (that might get them thinking).

Of course withhold any feedback (if you have not already left it) until they leave something to decide how to handle/or respond to it. You can easily squash any bad remarks from them by stating - returned before receiving return authorization code - and then they would checkout the auction and see what a nimrod the buyer was anyway.

MarkJude

I agree with the majority.

Cover your costs and send the buyer whatever is left.

I do find it interesting that they simply sent you the coin without ever telling you that they were dissatisfied or bothering to explain there reasons in the package they sent. I guess just another "unique" buyer...

Mark

Petescorner

Keep the money. Keep the coin. Neg 'em. And send 'em a reply email with a virus! That oughta teach 'em!

(no wonder, no one ever listens to my advise.)

danglen

Just got this email in from the buyer:

"Hi,
I received your 1921 NGC ms 65 morgan dollar. Your photograph of the coin shows it as blast white and fully struck. The coin is off white with yellow streaked semi mottled toning and NGC was very generous with the grade as there is a nice cut in the neck as well as a few other cuts in the coin. Looks 64 if anything to me even though I know that 1921 morgans do not come that nice. I very rarely return purchases as you can see from my feedback but you must look at your picture of the coin and compare to the return
when you receive it.
Please refund my purchase price of $84 when you receive coin and send check to:
XXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXX

I am sorry for the inconvenience but I was trying to upgrade my PCGS ms64 1921 but it is nicer than this NGC 65."

Petescorner

Check this previous feedback left for your buyer:

cobra76(1146) Jan-03-00 14:37:07 PST
Neutral : Ret. a slab coin that was pictured and accurately desc. that she overbid on.
Response by babs101 - NGC slab was overgraded and looked like a low end ms64 rather than the ms65 purc


Sound familiar?

CarsonCityGold

Ebay is an auction site - not a for sale on approval site. Sellers are free to set whatever return policy they choose. Bidders are free to choose to bid, or not, based on a sellers policies. Most bidders will choose either not to bid or bid less if there are no return privledges. If the item is a slabbed coin, as it was in this case, the bidder is placing his trust in the parameters of that companies grading. We all know all 65's are not created equal. If you don't trust that companies grading - then don't bid!! If your policy was clearly stated then stick to it. Wait until he emails you and tell him if he wants to send you the shipping charges, you'll be glad to return his coin to him. You can't have your cake and eat it too!! Why have rules if you're not going to play by them?

danglen

Based on a lot of good suggestions from people in this forum, I have drafted the following response. I'll wait a day or so before I send the final version, because I want to continue to get good input from a lot of you before I do.

Hi,
I acknowledge receipt of your coin via Federal Express. While doing your minute examination of the coin pictured in the images, you obviously missed the section in my "Terms" that says "I don't offer return privileges on coins unless I misgrade them, etc." Having established this fact, I am willing to send you a refund in the amount of $81.67, which I arrived at as follows: Funds you sent via PayPal of $86.79, minus PayPal fees of $2.82, eBay listing fees of $.30, S & H fees of $2.00. I will recover the Final Value Fee from eBay once I file a Non-Paying Bidder Alert with eBay, so there is no need for you to worry about that. My check will be mailed to you as soon as I see that you have posted positive feedback to my account regarding this auction, as I don't want to run the risk of going through all this only to have you leave me a less than positive feedback comment. There is no need for you to reply to this email, although you certainly may do so if you so desire. As soon as I see your feedback posted in my feedback record I will follow through with my part of the deal.
From your feedback file I see you have a history of returning slabs that don't please you. In the future, if you want to upgrade your PCGS set, I would suggest you stick to bidding on PCGS encapsulated coins, just not any of the ones I might have up for auction.
Regards,

sinin1

I like it - some people just bid from the title with a cursory glance at the coin and do not read the entire description (or variations of this).

As a bidder, I would be reluctant to leave any feedback until I was satisfied with the outcome (meaning I would wait until receipt of refund, but then I would also leave positive feedback).

I still don't get it - they were trying to upgrade their registry set? Looking for an undergraded NGC that would crossover to PCGS?

airplanenut

An NGC set takes PCGS and NGC coins...