Answers to your questions - Part 2
homerunhall
Posts: 2,496 ✭✭✭
gmarguli asks (states): "PR70s? What happened to them. The grading scale is 1-70, not 1-69."
PCGS Answer: I agree with your grading scale comment. Certainly the 1985 to date coins we recieve are fabulous quality and I don't understand the virtual lack of any 70s at all. It seems to me that .5% to 2% of these coins should be PR70. Now I have not looked at these coins, so I can't say for sure. however, I will encourage the graders to use the whole scale and give out the PR70 grade were appropriate.
gmarguli asks (states): "The grading on modern proofs is a joke. I've received coins recently graded PR69 that should be in PR66/67 holders."
PCGS Answer: I disagree with you on this one and I do look at a number of these. Almost all of them look fantastic to me. I would like to see some PCGS PR69s that should be in PR66 holders. Please send them to me and I'll give you my opinion as to whether we're as messed up as you think we are.
gmarguli asks (states): "The ultra-tightass grading on non-modern proofs that is coming out of there right now is a joke."
PCGS Answer: I have a very strong opinion that your perception is incorrect. I assume you mean pre-1965 coins. If that's the case, while I haven't seen a ton of coins, the ones I've seen certainly aren't undergraded to my eyes. I may be wrong, so the next time you submitt a batch to PCGS tell them to hold it when done and I'll look at your coins and tell you what I think about the grades.
gmarguli states: "The crossover game is crap."...etc.
PCGS answer: Here's the deal on crossovers. it is to our advantage to cross as many nice NGC coins as possible to PCGS holders. As I said, I haven't been close to this for the last 3 years. But during the previous 10 years, the crossover rate (and we published it on a monthly basis...and I don't think we should have stopped publishing it) hoovered consistently around the 50% range. Think about it. Every month we got to look at 2000 NGC coins and cream the best half to put in PCGS holders. A permanent rape of their quality inventory. A great deal for us and a bad deal for them. We want to have as many coins as possible in PCGS holders. We do not want nice coins to be in NGC holders. That said, Laura Sperber just told me she thinks the crossover rate is now only 20% to 25%. If's that's the case, then there may truly be a problem. I'll check it out and let everyone know what the crossover rate actually has been for the last 3 months.
gmarguli states: "Someone at PCGS fingerprints coins."
PCGS Answer: If this is true then it's totally unacceptable. Please send me some coins as examples. I will find out whose fingerprints they are and personally chop off their fingers or some other bodypart and send you pictures of the dis-memberment (wow...how did that sound...strong enough for you). Actually we won't be castrating anybody, but if you do have a fingerprint problem, please send us the coins and we'll take care of the situation one way or the other.
gmarguli states: "The regrade game. Are the coins actually regraded or just reholdered with a very quick glance at the coins?"
PCGS Answer: When we do regrade submissions we crack the coins out of their holders and they go thru the grading process as if they were originally submitted raw. It is a 100% legit deal. You should realize that any apparently high grade coin you buy from a dealer in a PCGS holder has probably already been submitted for grading numerous times and the odds of you catching an upgrade are small. This is a straight deal. If I was a dealer who submitted my own coins for grading (which I'm not), then I would never crack a coin out, I would always use the re-grade service.
gmarguli asks (states): "Bodybagged coins. Is there a set percentage of coins that must be bodybagged or do the graders do it random?"
PCGS Answer: There is no set percentage. We no-grade when we think the coin has been doctored. This is one of our most complicated issues. We have a tremendous problem with coin doctors. The graders get bombarded with this stuff. I remember once in the early years when we got a big submission of BTW halves that were all bright blue. We no-graded the whole batch and 30 days later they came back in all bright green. The graders get paranoid. We have to protect the buyers. I have no doubt that innocent by-standers sometimes get shot down. Contact Charlie or Sandy in customer service and we'll try to deal with any legitamate no-grade problems you have.
David Hall
PCGS Answer: I agree with your grading scale comment. Certainly the 1985 to date coins we recieve are fabulous quality and I don't understand the virtual lack of any 70s at all. It seems to me that .5% to 2% of these coins should be PR70. Now I have not looked at these coins, so I can't say for sure. however, I will encourage the graders to use the whole scale and give out the PR70 grade were appropriate.
gmarguli asks (states): "The grading on modern proofs is a joke. I've received coins recently graded PR69 that should be in PR66/67 holders."
PCGS Answer: I disagree with you on this one and I do look at a number of these. Almost all of them look fantastic to me. I would like to see some PCGS PR69s that should be in PR66 holders. Please send them to me and I'll give you my opinion as to whether we're as messed up as you think we are.
gmarguli asks (states): "The ultra-tightass grading on non-modern proofs that is coming out of there right now is a joke."
PCGS Answer: I have a very strong opinion that your perception is incorrect. I assume you mean pre-1965 coins. If that's the case, while I haven't seen a ton of coins, the ones I've seen certainly aren't undergraded to my eyes. I may be wrong, so the next time you submitt a batch to PCGS tell them to hold it when done and I'll look at your coins and tell you what I think about the grades.
gmarguli states: "The crossover game is crap."...etc.
PCGS answer: Here's the deal on crossovers. it is to our advantage to cross as many nice NGC coins as possible to PCGS holders. As I said, I haven't been close to this for the last 3 years. But during the previous 10 years, the crossover rate (and we published it on a monthly basis...and I don't think we should have stopped publishing it) hoovered consistently around the 50% range. Think about it. Every month we got to look at 2000 NGC coins and cream the best half to put in PCGS holders. A permanent rape of their quality inventory. A great deal for us and a bad deal for them. We want to have as many coins as possible in PCGS holders. We do not want nice coins to be in NGC holders. That said, Laura Sperber just told me she thinks the crossover rate is now only 20% to 25%. If's that's the case, then there may truly be a problem. I'll check it out and let everyone know what the crossover rate actually has been for the last 3 months.
gmarguli states: "Someone at PCGS fingerprints coins."
PCGS Answer: If this is true then it's totally unacceptable. Please send me some coins as examples. I will find out whose fingerprints they are and personally chop off their fingers or some other bodypart and send you pictures of the dis-memberment (wow...how did that sound...strong enough for you). Actually we won't be castrating anybody, but if you do have a fingerprint problem, please send us the coins and we'll take care of the situation one way or the other.
gmarguli states: "The regrade game. Are the coins actually regraded or just reholdered with a very quick glance at the coins?"
PCGS Answer: When we do regrade submissions we crack the coins out of their holders and they go thru the grading process as if they were originally submitted raw. It is a 100% legit deal. You should realize that any apparently high grade coin you buy from a dealer in a PCGS holder has probably already been submitted for grading numerous times and the odds of you catching an upgrade are small. This is a straight deal. If I was a dealer who submitted my own coins for grading (which I'm not), then I would never crack a coin out, I would always use the re-grade service.
gmarguli asks (states): "Bodybagged coins. Is there a set percentage of coins that must be bodybagged or do the graders do it random?"
PCGS Answer: There is no set percentage. We no-grade when we think the coin has been doctored. This is one of our most complicated issues. We have a tremendous problem with coin doctors. The graders get bombarded with this stuff. I remember once in the early years when we got a big submission of BTW halves that were all bright blue. We no-graded the whole batch and 30 days later they came back in all bright green. The graders get paranoid. We have to protect the buyers. I have no doubt that innocent by-standers sometimes get shot down. Contact Charlie or Sandy in customer service and we'll try to deal with any legitamate no-grade problems you have.
David Hall
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BTW Can you ask the moderator(s) if there is a way to "sticky" this thread or something similar to the top of the board? That way we all can have a focal point to ask questions and receive answers without having to scroll 3,4,5 or more pages deep in the board for important responses members may miss when they are away.
I am curious if the GIA, the service that grades diamonds and other jewels, has as many "issues" as we seem to be having with the coin grading services?
I can comment on this. GIA/GTL grades are basically the final word on diamonds. Reasons? They have machines that grade the stones, so there is consistency & properly graded diamonds. The only "problems" GIA every had, were sleezy dealers replacing diamonds w/ lower quality ones. GIA fired back, laser engraving the serial number from the report onto the girdle of the diamond.
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i make the claim there,which has never been contested,that my coin is the 'discovery' 1901-S dime with type II or 'new' reverse...
i made inquiry to PCGS about getting my coin encapsulated and attributed,maybe even labelled 'discovery 1901-S,new reverse' but was told that,for my coin, "it isn't possible..."
What is PCGS's policy on unlisted variety attribution and encapsulation?i could provide proof
to PCGS as to the authenticity of my coin.Given that,why is it not possible for PCGS to encapsulate/attribute my rare coin?
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<< <i>I will find out whose fingerprints they are and personally chop off their fingers or some other bodypart and send you pictures of the dis-memberment (wow...how did that sound...strong enough for you) >>
You might have to bring your axe with you to Florida when you find out who those alleged prints belong to.
Not my coin but here's one that needs attention. This coin clearly shows that someone used their naked thumb to push in this coin.
How does PCGS push the coin in place?
If I send in a coin worth $25,000 and it comes back with a fingerprint. What's your call on this.
I have some 300 coins that I would like PCGS to grade (I like the $15/30 day economy plan) but how will
you gaurantee that not one of them will get a fingerprint.
And when will PCGS begin grading and designating 6 step Jefferson's.
Thank you for your time.
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
Greg
mo <><
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Thanks for the effort to respond to questions and offer your perspective on issues. I think you have done some good in public relations that may help alleviate a lot of unwarrented flack, improve your own operations and build good will. I thought your responses are both thoughtful and rational.
<< <i>PCGS Answer: I agree with your grading scale comment. Certainly the 1985 to date coins we recieve are fabulous quality and I don't understand the virtual lack of any 70s at all. It seems to me that .5% to 2% of these coins should be PR70. >>
I'll be damned, a real answer. That already puts you way ahead of Rick Montgomery, who flatly refused to address the issue. Both Greg and I had asked about this in the Q&A forum, and the question was summarily ignored. Thank you.
As a statistical example of this, check the proof Kennedy series. There are 157 PR70DCAMs from the years 1995-1998, yet there is only ONE from 1999-2002. Pretty obvious, don't you think?
And, here's a fingerprint example for you:
It's clear from the location that this one happened during insertion of the coin in to the O ring. In this case, Charlie Kahler took care of it for me. BTW, he's a great guy who tries very hard. Hire more like him.
Russ, NCNE
And yes, Charlie is a great guy. Rick may go off to NGC and PCGS winds up a better company for it, but if Charlie ever leaves you guys are screwed