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Please: A List of Coins PCGS Grades Better than NGC.

braddickbraddick Posts: 24,109 ✭✭✭✭✭
in PCGS Set Registry Forum
I take it, from reading various threads and posts from knowledgable collectors that PCGS grades better (tighter?) than NGC in the following series:
1- Morgans.
2- Mercuries.
3- Lincolns.
4 Jeffersons.

Are there any series I'm missing? How about Peace dollars? Trade? Early Bust? Franklins? Early Commemoratives?
I honestly didn't know others felt so strongly about the grading standards of PCGS vs NGC. I was under the mistaken impression that the two Services offered equal quality coins as of late (in the same holders).
In fact, I was beginning to think NGC coins were gaining a slight edge (other than Moderns).

peacockcoins

Comments

  • FairlanemanFairlaneman Posts: 10,423 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Pat:

    Both Services Grade just fine but to different standards. I hope people are not missing this point. People are comparing the numbers always and not the Standards that produce those numbers.

    A PCGS 65 coin is a PCGS 65 and a NGC 65 coin is a NGC 65. Its really to bad that they are not equal but that is how the two services have choosen to grade thier coins which are submitted to them.

    Ken
  • braddickbraddick Posts: 24,109 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Ok, I get that- but even ACG has a "MS65" standard.

    Where is NGC's Standard compared to PCGS's? I honestly thought they were right up next to each other. And, if that was the case, there would be no reason not to allow NGC coins into PCGS's Registry.

    If this is not the case then I would withdraw my request.

    peacockcoins

  • FairlanemanFairlaneman Posts: 10,423 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Let me qualify the above statement as was done on the other thread.

    Mercs only, other series I do not know as I have not compared enough of the coins to give a opinion. image

    Ken
  • IrishMikeIrishMike Posts: 7,737 ✭✭✭
    Ok, suppose you have a 1918-D Merc PCGS64 FB, according to one of your posts PCGS is a full point higher than NGC on mercs. Why wouldn't you crack it out and send it to NGC for your guaranteed 65FB. Last I checked the price difference was something like $2700 in 64 and $42K in 65. You'd be a wealthy man. You could 2nd mortgage the house buy the next 18-D send it to NGC, payoff the second and buy a really nice 16-D. Go for it. image Or you could just keep buying expensive mercs, cracking them out to NGC and keep repeating the process.
  • LakesammmanLakesammman Posts: 17,393 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I collect FE and IHC cents. I buy the coin, not the holder (I want to puke just typing thatimage. As a result, 80% of my coins are PCGS. Grade for grade, they have been better coins.
    "My friends who see my collection sometimes ask what something costs. I tell them and they are in awe at my stupidity." (Baccaruda, 12/03).I find it hard to believe that he (Trump) rushed to some hotel to meet girls of loose morals, although ours are undoubtedly the best in the world. (Putin 1/17) Gone but not forgotten. IGWT, Speedy, Bear, BigE, HokieFore, John Burns, Russ, TahoeDale, Dahlonega, Astrorat, Stewart Blay, Oldhoopster, Broadstruck, Ricko, Big Moose.
  • toothpullertoothpuller Posts: 600 ✭
    Indian Head Cents - can be 1 or better point difference in grade in mint state. Color is also a factor. There are, on a whole, more RB IHCs in RD NGC holders than in PCGS holders. At one point a good number of dogs got into NGC holders. Way too many NGC 66s are out there that shouldn't be. Stewart Blay should weigh in on the IHCs and Lincolns.
  • DAMDAM Posts: 2,410 ✭✭
    I would like to address color. PCGS is much better attributing RD and RB than other services. NGC often awards RD to coins that lack luster and, in my opinion, are more brown than red. Not to say all their RD coins are such, but I've seen quite a few.

    Lakesammman, do you notice this is your search for IHCs?
    Dan
  • FairlanemanFairlaneman Posts: 10,423 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Mike:

    Why always the Bait game with Me ??? Ask a Few other Merc Folks and see what they say. Just don't take My word for the way Mercs are graded between the services. Better yet, why dont you buy a few early date coins and prove the statement to yourself. Not the Late Date Cheapo crap, try on the early Dates.

    As far as Up-Gradeing for Money. What the HELL FOR. I like my coins right where they are.

    Take your NGC game back home like you told Me to do over there. Get Back with your Buddies.

    Ken
  • DMWJRDMWJR Posts: 6,006 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I think it would be easier to list the coins that PCGS does NOT grade better than NGC.
    Doug
  • DeepCoinDeepCoin Posts: 2,781 ✭✭✭
    I would like to add my comment on Mercurys. The issue to me is that there is about a 1/2 point difference between the two grading services. This is more true as you go up in grade, particularly in the grade of 67 and 68 for the newer Mercs.

    I can only speak to the more moderately priced coins as I do not have the resources for those 10K coins. But I feel that I am on firm ground in the limited area I know. If you check the bluesheet, you will see different prices for PCGS and NGC. This is the reality of the marketplace, not my observation.
    Retired United States Mint guy, now working on an Everyman Type Set.
  • jcpingjcping Posts: 2,649 ✭✭✭

    Based on my standard of Full Head standing liberty quarters, I could find more coins in PCGS holders than those in NGC holders. Of course, dealers is always ask much more (the same grade number on the holder) for PCGS standing liberty quarters image
    an SLQ and Ike dollars lover
  • jbstevenjbsteven Posts: 6,178 ✭
    from what I know about mercurys and pcgs and ngc grading I would say ngc is a full point higher on their mercury's. it would be very hard to get the same money the exact same graded mercury, the pcgs coin would draw more $$$. check the bluesheet on ngc vs. pcgs mercs.
  • KAJ1KAJ1 Posts: 773 ✭✭✭
    I think DeepCoin( one with outstanding football taste ) has a good point.
    It's not the 64-65's that PCGS is more strict about( for the most part )
    It's getting from the 66 to 67 level that I feel PCGS is more tight on.
    This is speaking from a Lincoln cent collector's point of view. image

    I have heard that NGC is "easier" on FBL Franklins...

    Buy the coin I guess.. image


  • IrishMikeIrishMike Posts: 7,737 ✭✭✭
    You avoided my question Ken. You are the one who stated that PCGS coins are one grade better, either put up or shut up. Can't do it can you?
  • FairlanemanFairlaneman Posts: 10,423 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Mike:

    I said Merc Dimes and Not All PCGS coins. Read Son !! Hey ...You might read a couple of the other posts.

    So You Put Up or Shut Up !!!

    Again... Take your Bias attitude back over to the NGC Forumns and wallow in all of the trash that comes out there.

    Ken
  • IrishMikeIrishMike Posts: 7,737 ✭✭✭
    You also just lied Ken, I never told you to leave, for all of you who believe him, here is the thread, he took his ball and went home.link
  • IrishMikeIrishMike Posts: 7,737 ✭✭✭
    Ken we are talking about dimes here, quit trying to wiggle out of this one, you gonna throw another hissy fit and go home?
  • python1python1 Posts: 789


    << <i>Well now he can go back over to the other forum and be with his merc buddies. >>

    I take that you dont like the merc group, or did I do same as you and read to much into it?Just asking.......image
    Dennis

    My Dimes

    << If it's worth doing, it's worth doing right the first time! >>
  • python1python1 Posts: 789
    OH yea, I am really glad you gave us that link, I did learn alot while I was over there about several things....I must say I was awaken...image
    Dennis

    My Dimes

    << If it's worth doing, it's worth doing right the first time! >>
  • LakesammmanLakesammman Posts: 17,393 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Agree - PCGS is better at color than NGC when it comes to IHC's. Neither are perfect.

    Re: Fairlaneman, what do you expect from a Duck......

    Lakesammman
    OSU Class of '79image
    "My friends who see my collection sometimes ask what something costs. I tell them and they are in awe at my stupidity." (Baccaruda, 12/03).I find it hard to believe that he (Trump) rushed to some hotel to meet girls of loose morals, although ours are undoubtedly the best in the world. (Putin 1/17) Gone but not forgotten. IGWT, Speedy, Bear, BigE, HokieFore, John Burns, Russ, TahoeDale, Dahlonega, Astrorat, Stewart Blay, Oldhoopster, Broadstruck, Ricko, Big Moose.
  • FairlanemanFairlaneman Posts: 10,423 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The Hated Beaver but Not as much as a Husky !!!

    Opps forgot the imageimage 's
  • TWQGTWQG Posts: 3,145 ✭✭
    Silver washingtons in NGC holders grade 1/2 to 3 points higher IMO.
    My eBay store
  • LakesammmanLakesammman Posts: 17,393 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Fairlaneman:

    Hate to tell you but, OSU Beaver '79, UW Husky '83, U. Minn. Gopher '87.......oh boy, can't wait to read the next post.......image

    On any given weekend, "my" team is winning.image

    Now remind me, what was this topic about......?
    "My friends who see my collection sometimes ask what something costs. I tell them and they are in awe at my stupidity." (Baccaruda, 12/03).I find it hard to believe that he (Trump) rushed to some hotel to meet girls of loose morals, although ours are undoubtedly the best in the world. (Putin 1/17) Gone but not forgotten. IGWT, Speedy, Bear, BigE, HokieFore, John Burns, Russ, TahoeDale, Dahlonega, Astrorat, Stewart Blay, Oldhoopster, Broadstruck, Ricko, Big Moose.
  • FairlanemanFairlaneman Posts: 10,423 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Quack......Who has Better coins. image was the subject.

    Gophers are Allright.

    Ken
  • quattrocoinsquattrocoins Posts: 1,881
    FWIW, my experiences w/the two:

    Cracked-out and sent in 3 NGC MS67FB Mercs and 3 came back as 66s. (luckily didn't lose the bands on them,...but that's a different story! image )

    Cracked-out and sent in about 6 proof Washingtons, and all but one lost a point. (two others lost their CAM designation,...but that's another story! image )

    Sent in for crossing one Barber Quarter and 2 Standin' Libs - none crossed.

    And finally, sent in 10 Washingtons to cross, and 3.5 made it over! image

    Don
    FULL Heads RULE!
  • EVillageProwlerEVillageProwler Posts: 5,856 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Pat,

    Why did you start this thread? And, why did you do so knowing that ``better'' is subjective and does NOT equal ``strict?''

    Just because a service grades a series more strictly than another service does not mean that it actually grades better. The stricter service might possibly have a greater grade point deviation than the less strict one. Then, how does consistency play into the notion of ``better?''

    EVP

    How does one get a hater to stop hating?

    I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com

  • barneybarney Posts: 205 ✭
    M.D. Toner here,

    NGC gives more brownie points for superior toning, do they not? I've had people tell me to resubmit my $3000 double-sided monster '86 to NGC for a higher grade (it's currently PCGS 64). And I hear that ANACS is especially tough on type gold-are they more strict than PCGS/NGC on common-date type? I'm looking at two 1891-CC $10's:NGC 61 and ANACS 62. The retail price is about
    the same ($880 vs $900). the 61 is baggy, but the photo for the 62 is too bright to really tell.

    Barney
    Nicht mehr Münzen-für jetzt!
  • TypetoneTypetone Posts: 1,621 ✭✭
    NGC is tougher on giving the Franklin FBL designation than PCGS, but they are easier on the grade itself.

    Greg
  • braddickbraddick Posts: 24,109 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Pat, Why did you start this thread? And, why did you do so knowing that ``better'' is subjective and does NOT equal ``strict?'' Just because a service grades a series more strictly than another service does not mean that it actually grades better. The stricter service might possibly have a greater grade point deviation than the less strict one. Then, how does consistency play into the notion of ``better?'' EVP >>



    EVP- fair question. I was truly under the assumption it was now generally agreed upon in both camps that PCGS and NGC had "come together" on the grading scales and by so doing BOTH sets of coins could combine in ONE Registry such as NGC is doing.
    I've learned that many do not subsribe to the same thinking as I do and I wanted to take it a step further and get specifics. I wanted to learn exactly what coins didn't 'qualify' with NGC per PCGS enthusiasts.
    My error may have been using the word, "better" in the header. I suppose 'strict' may have been better suited. Please know it was unintentional and I had no other agenda than that stated here.

    peacockcoins

  • dbldie55dbldie55 Posts: 7,731 ✭✭✭✭✭
    What is interesting is that if PCGS and NGC have "come together" on a standard, it would not apply to any of the threads posted here. That is the problem with changing a standard. None of the current holdered coins are equal to it, but are traded as if they are.
    Collector and Researcher of Liberty Head Nickels. ANA LM-6053
  • izzy452izzy452 Posts: 929 ✭
    My experience is that NGC is better on gold coins and buffalo nickels. But for Mercury dimes,PCGS is the only way to go. There is a great difference in price and grading,compared to other coins.


    Walt




  • orevilleoreville Posts: 11,994 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Interesting about "changing standards."

    NGC at one time was much tougher than PCGS on the grading of mercury dimes,

    Case in point: My NGC graded 1916-D MS-67FB dime was the very first graded by NGC and to this day I believe they still have only graded 2 of them. PCGS now has 6 in 67FB of which 2 are probably duplicates.

    For the 8 or 9 years until around 1996 NGC prided themselves on their toughness in grading mercury dimes. Then all of a sudden coins that were very weakly split started getting FB designation from NGC when PCGS continued to refuse to give such FB designation.

    What seems to have happened is that NGC has seemed to be tougher in absolute grading of the mercury dimes in more cases than PCGS but in the all important test of FB or no FB PCGS was much tougher.

    About 1/2 of my mercury dimes are in PCGS holders and the other 1/2 in NGC. I have noticed that NGC has recently toughened up on their grading of mercury dimes once again.

    So in this series I believe PCGS had been more consistent than NGC in grading over the long haul. However, the last two years for PCGS has been something of a puzzlement for me. They seemed to suddenly relax their standards then suddenly re-tightened them up again.

    Another case in point, I once owned a NGC 1945-S micro s in MS-66FB. While the coin was a blazer and very beautiful, the center bands split on the fasces were on the weak side with more than the usual chatter for a 66 although split.

    I wanted to upgrade to a 67FB and finally settled on the Kritzman 67FB micro-s dime in a PCGS holder and while the central bands are beautifully and deeply split, the rest of the coin barely makes and even would be questionable for the NGC standards for a 67.

    Also look at the PCGS MS-67FB 1916-D dime being advertised on the Heritage site for $122,000 and change. It has clean surfaces and strike for a 67 but the rest of the coin does not meet the standards for a 67. Possibly the lighting is bad but this coin sure looks like a 66FB to me and looks very familiar to me in a former 66FB holder.

    In another area of coins, I believe PCGS has been more consistent in grading the Washington quarter series for the last 15 years than NGC. Why? I have numerous slabs of both NGC and PCGS of the earlier washington quarters and NGC has vacillated from being equally as tough as PCGS in the early years to being more lax for the past 8 years.

    Now for other series, I can see where PCGS has seemed to be more variable in their grading standards, sort of a reaction to price movement in the coins.....when prices dropped standards eventually became tougher and when prices rose standards relaxed. This is the first time I recall in a period of rising prices that standards have also tigtened as well.

    These are but a summary of some of my observations.

    A Collectors Universe poster since 1997!
  • TAP444TAP444 Posts: 824
    Oreville,
    you nailed the mercs on the head, old ngc slabbed mercs were graded
    very tough as opposed to pcgs,recently the opposite is true.a lot of the
    new 68fb coins in pcgs are coming from old ngc 67fb slabs that are cracked
    before being sent in for grading. Those old ncg mercs are very hard to find now
    Tim
    LOOKING FOR 1931-s merc that is nice for the grade and fb
  • DeepCoinDeepCoin Posts: 2,781 ✭✭✭
    Mike,

    I think you are really distorting matters here. Every NGC coin is not a grade lower, but many, many are. Enough that there are different pricing guides.

    Is it your position that NGC Mercurys grade the same as PCGS?

    When there is a large price jump for a single grade, you know EVERYONE will be conservative (except ACG who will add 3 points anyway) in the grading of that coin. There is no free lunch, but there are different NGC and PCGS standards for Mercurys. This may be related to previous older grading of coins, but they are what they are.
    Retired United States Mint guy, now working on an Everyman Type Set.
  • merysumerysu Posts: 72 ✭
    NGC is much tougher on FS Jeffs, NGC also tougher on FBL. Pat, you must not be a Jeff collector to make the assertion you made. -mark-
  • ZerbeZerbe Posts: 587 ✭✭
    HUH ?
  • FC57CoinsFC57Coins Posts: 9,140 ✭
    I'll chime in and agree with Typeone on Franklins. Quality wise, I'd say that NGC Franklins have in the past been about a half point behind with respect to overall grade. This isn't always consistent. I've had 3 NGC coins cross over, and 3 not cross. With respect to bell lines, NGC would get the nod as definitely the tougher grader there. In their defense, I think NGC is still suffering from the fact that years ago they were grading some really buttugly Franklins in 65 and 66. Judging from the quality of coins I've been seeing lately, this has changed, but still I'd give the edge to PCGS in this series.

    Frank
  • RegistryCoinRegistryCoin Posts: 5,117 ✭✭✭✭
    I'd look at some ngc patterns (slabbed long ago), but, nothing other than that. Ngc coins are potential crosses only, that is their sole purpose in life (and I think only about 5% have a chance to cross). image
  • khaysekhayse Posts: 1,336 ✭
    I'd add Walkers to this list. When I first decided to join the registry I had about half and
    half. Selling the NGCs reminded me why I had bought them in the first place, they were
    cheaper than the PCGSs. And comparing the PCGS coin I replaced each with I could
    tell they were cheaper because they were a bit easier with their grading.

    I've actually meant to test this more by taking nicer MS65 PCGS coins and sending them
    to NGC to try to get 66s. Haven't found the time yet.

    -KHayse
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