David Again
homerunhall
Posts: 2,496 ✭✭✭
Hello everyone...
I read all the messages about Rick Montgomery, PCGS, and me. The one thing that really hit home was the "only 7 posts in a year and a half" comment. Since many of our customers now use the message boards, I have probably been remiss in not participating more in this forum. So, until you guys get sick of me, I'll try to come on to the forum at least once a week.
Thanks for all the responses to my last post.
David Hall
PS...I do respond to all emails. Just forward them to BJ or Carol and I'll get back to you.
I read all the messages about Rick Montgomery, PCGS, and me. The one thing that really hit home was the "only 7 posts in a year and a half" comment. Since many of our customers now use the message boards, I have probably been remiss in not participating more in this forum. So, until you guys get sick of me, I'll try to come on to the forum at least once a week.
Thanks for all the responses to my last post.
David Hall
PS...I do respond to all emails. Just forward them to BJ or Carol and I'll get back to you.
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Comments
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>Just don't take it personally when we slam PCGS. We're only kidding.
Russ, NCNE >>
we are?
I was kidding about kidding.
Russ, NCNE
"Senorita HepKitty"
"I want a real cool Kitty from Hepcat City, to stay in step with me" - Bill Carter
Thank you for building pride in the hobby, I am sure we will not get sick of you on the message boards. There will be congratulations (such as for taking care of Laura with the 13 Saint), and there will be critics, but by you signing on it shows you have an interest in the hobby. Glad to see you here on the boards.
Tony
President, Racine Numismatic Society 2013-2014; Variety Resource Dimes; See 6/8/12 CDN for my article on Winged Liberty Dimes; Ebay
I'm only doing it to make Stewart Blay jealous.
Welcome to the boards. I can assure you that your presence will benefit you more than your absence. And you don't always have to post, lurking is okay as well.
I hope to meet you some day soon at one of the many shows I attend. One of things that I've found your competition does well is to make some of the key guys available at shows. I've been able to have face to face discussions with Mark Salsburg on a number of occassions and always come away with a positive impression.
Having said all of that, please do what you can to get a look at that NGC MS68 California that will arrive this week for a crossover (same grade or higher). It's a monster with attractive perpherial toning.
GSAGUY
P.S. Okay, sorry for that blatant attempt to garner a satisfactory grade on my coin......but then, it's a poor dog that won't wag his own tail.
David (I mean Mr. Hall
JJacks
...and welcome to the boards.
Thank you for being there for "us". I did chuckle and smile when I saw this post. I smiled because it is a step in the right direction to make everyone feel at ease a bit, through what is probably a difficult time. Thank you for sharing. Although we have never spoken, I am certain we will in the future!!
Hey, anyone want to show this Newbie around?
<< <i>Hey, anyone want to show this Newbie around? >>
Anywhere but the OPEN FORUM!!!!
Welcome aboard homerunhall.
I haven't had the pleasure of making your aquaintance, but I certainly appreciate the forum PCGS has provided for us to share our common interests, and I'm glad you have chosen to participate. I'm sure PCGS will miss Rick, but I'm also sure PCGS will adjust and will continue to provide value to the collector community.
Mr.Hall, although I haven't met you, I am a customer, user, and purchaser of your companys products. I'm not a very important customer. I've only submitted a few hundred coins, and purchased about the same number. I have submitted Kennedys, Ikes, 30's washington quarters, Peace dollars, Morgans, Bust halves, and misc. other coins, and many moderns. Your products and services have become an integral part of my collection. My reason for explaining my submissions was simply to let you know what in my mind has historically seperated your firms grading service from your competitors. In the past PCGS was more diligent regarding moderns than the other services. I think it is fair to say PCGS owned that part of the market. Nothing is more insulting to a submitter than to believe the grading service they're spending money with won't treat their coin seriously, and frankly, looking at many of the moderns in other holders, I can see that the graders who examined many of those coin were sometimes very cavalier. I'm sure most grading services pay lots of attention to expensive submissions, but the true measure of the quality of a grading service IMO is how they treat the more pedestrian and frequent submissions, the common coins. When you know the top collectors in the nation will critique your companys work, and use the holder grade as a permanent example of the quality of your service, you'll be very careful. Please remember though, that for collectors, your common coin grading examples will become a permanent part of their collection, and will be re-examined by them for years to come. To me, it is important that PCGS grade consistently, and treat every coin submitted as though it were important. Nothing makes assembling a collection more frustrating than a shift in grading standard. It is my hope that through your transition, you will make every effort to assure grading consistency. That is the quality that will determine PCGSs position in the market. I have sensed the continuing tightening of the grading standard at PCGS over the last few years, beginning with the practical elimination of the PR70 grade for many series, and as a submitter, will admit being baffled when I compare some of my old holder coins to some of my recent submissions/purchases. Speaking only for myself, consistency and genuine interest in my coins are all I hope for when submitting. As I mentioned earlier in the post, I have chosen PCGS as a partner in my hobby, so I hope my post is received in the spirit in which it was written, as a friend. I'd like to see PCGS continue to grow.
and it sets us apart from practitioners and consultants. Gregor
Perfect.
Russ, NCNE
There are a lot of things I like about PCGS grading and a few things I'd like to see us do even better, two of which you have pointed out in your post. I can't get more specific, but I can tell you I'm aware of what we should do and I'll work on it for you.
David
Russ, NCNE
WWQ
Welcome to the/your board. I'd also like to thank you for your company purchasing my 2001-S Silver Statehood quarter set on eBay. All certified, I'm proud to say, PCGS PR69DCAM. Now, if you can do something to make sure my submission of Platinum eagles receive MS70 grades you will make my day.
Welcome
John Dillie
My eBay About Me page DenverCoin on eBay
Registry 1909-1958 Proof Lincolns
I just logged on and saw this thread, and I was very pleasantly surprised to hear that you will try to log on more often. I hope you'll encourage other members of your staff to do the same; one of the biggest complaints lately has been that PCGS has not been listening to their customers. I don't really know whether this is true but it certainly is a very positive thing to have you here. Thank you for joining us!
Thanks for joining us and your contributions. Sometimes difficult situations, like the recent managment change, can lead to positive customer interaction like you see here. I think you will find this forum a positive experience, just keep an open mind!
And I second what Don said. I am a PCGS Set Registry participant, but have heard so much negative discussion about attempting to cross over from NGC that I don't even bother. I would like to pay you for this service, and if I had a 75% or better chance I would spend the money. Don't forget us little guys!
NOTE: No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However, a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
Type collector since 1981
Current focus 1855 date type set
Thank you for participating in the forums. I look forward to your insights on this great hobby and I have always enjoyed your articles. I am glad that you will make time for us here.
Oh yeah, I almost forgot. Don't forget to weight the cameo Barber proofs before I finish my Registry collection. That means that you have about 3 years to get it done. No hurry!
Take care,
Mike
edited to add; this is my 1000th post!!!!!
eBay Store
DPOTD Jan 2005, Meet the Darksiders
Very admirable response, thank-you for stepping up to the plate.
Joe
In God We Trust.... all others pay in Gold and Silver!
I've been a long time submitter to PCGS. I started submitting around the beginning. I've spent enough on submissions to buy you a Ferrari or a house in many cities.
I've never been more sickened in and tired of PCGS than I am now.
The grading inconsistencies are atrocious. Do the graders even look at the coins anymore?
The grading on modern proofs is a joke. I don't know if it is the new grader that PCGS hired, or that PCGS finally decided not to spend the time looking at the coins, or yet another switch in grading standards. Any way, the grading sucks (and I say that knowing full well the modern grader participates in this forum somewhat anonymously). And I should make it very clear that I find the grading very much on the loose end of the grading scale for modern proofs – so I am not complaining about getting screwed on grades. This grading is a drastic change from 1-2 years ago. I've received coins that were recently graded PR69 that should be in PR66/67 slabs. You are closer to ICG standards than PCGS standards.
The ultra-tightass grading on non-modern proofs that is coming out of there right now is a joke. You guys published a book on your grading standards. Should I send you a copy of it? I ask because I can only guess that you don't own a copy of it because PCGS sure as hell doesn't grade by its published standards.
PR70s? What happened to them. Stop the BS. Start grading them again. The grading scale is 1-70, not 1-69. Please don't tell me a line that if the coin warrants it, it will be graded 70. I'm not as blind as some. PCGS has chocked off the supply of 70s for political reasons.
The crossover game is like a giant vat of crap. Yes, NGC grades on par with PCGS. Admit it. Stop the game. I know you hate NGC. I know you want to pretend like PCGS is #1 and the next grading service is #37. They are not. I'm tired of sending in a coin for crossover multiple times and it failing to cross, yet when I crack it and send it in raw it grades at the same grade or higher. A giant political game that everyone is sick of.
Someone at PCGS fingerprints our coins. I've yet to see someone at PCGS admit this publicly. However, it has been admitted to me privately by two PCGS employees. Find this fingerprinting person and cut their fingers off or at the very least fire them. Work on dipping these fingerprinted coins for anyone who has a problem. PCGS fixed my coins for free and I am thankful. Now is the time to fix other people's coins. Step up to the plate and hit a home run Hall.
The regrade game. Are the coins actually regraded or just reholdered with a very quick glance at the coins? Based on my previous batch of coins that I sent in for regrade, I have to guess that PCGS doesn't really look at the coins. I received some pathetically bad joke grades from PCGS. Upon regrade the grades didn't change. These coins upgraded 1-2 grades at NGC to their accurate grades. It was a giant waste of money for me. I hope the extra couple of hundred dollars helped your bottom line, because it sure reduced the number of coins I have submitted to PCGS.
Bodybagged coins. Is there a set percentage of coins that must be bodybagged or do the graders do it at random? Fake/arbitrary bodybags are a pathetic way to boost your bottom line. Everyone is tired of getting coins bodybagged for no real reason. If a coin deserves to be bodybagged, then so be it. However, PCGS has taken it to the extreme and beyond. One forum member just reported getting a coin bodybagged for altered surfaces. He sent in the entire modern proof set. Another member reported a trade dollar cracked from a PCGS slab and then getting bodybagged for cleaning. Should I send you one of my coins that was bodybagged for "environmental damage" that upon resubmission was graded MS67? Nothing was done in between submissions. This is NOT an isolated incident for me. It has happened several times in the past. I would guess I get about 80% of my bodybagged coins slabbed on the next attempt. Why? Do not tell me grading is subjective. It is not THAT subjective. I could continue to tell you about the arbitrariness of the PCGS bodybags. However, I have a bad gut feeling that you are already aware of this due to a "company directive" intended to help the bottom line. How many customers need to get fed up and switch to NGC before this changes?
If PCGS is going to bodybag a coin and keep 100% of the submission fee, do you think that you could have one of the graders actually take 3 seconds of his oh-so-precious time which we are paying him $30 for and write an explanation (other than that oh-so-unhelpful checkmark) as to why the coin was bodybagged? NGC frequently does this. ANACS does this.
The PCGS name is tarnished thanks to the stupid slabbed gold nuggets and signed presidential crap. I will not even mention the disgusting profiteering off the deaths of thousands of Americans with the sickening WTC slabbed death coins. Is it your intention to take all prestige away from the PCGS name? If not, stop will all the pathetic gimmicks. Don't try to feed me a line that they are slabbed by CU and not PCGS. Get a totally different slab if you want to tell that story.
You said that PCGS grades 75,000 coins per month. If this is true, which I have a hard time believing, then why are the turnaround times so much faster than before when you were grading 40,000 coins? I was told that only one additional grader was hired.
Why was Laura’s 13-D Saint not downgraded when first submitted? I know this is only one coin out of many, but it sure shows a lack of willingness at PCGS to own up to their mistakes and stand behind their grading guarantee. It is great that you have so far stepped forward and plan to take care of this. However, the amount of public pressure and publicity sure make this look like yet another PCGS backpedaling and not a conviction of standing behind your guarantee.
I think it is great that you say you will participate in these forums. Too long has passed with your customers screaming and PCGS ignoring the problems. Is there any wonder in your mind why NGC has surpassed PCGS in customer satisfaction and submissions? Your first item of business tomorrow should be to start the search to hire a marketing professional to teach you and your staff how to run your business without tripping over yourself at every step.
If you want to know why I am sending more coins to NGC you need only to look at the above. I'm sure the same reasons I listed are the reasons why dealers are choosing NGC over PCGS.
If you thought the sports card guys were tough on you, then you have never met me after getting bad treatment from PCGS.
he's homerun, he can probably handle a slider or two......
Tell us how you really feel!
dl
gmarguli-, seriously man what do you really think, I mean you were kindof wishy washy
Mr. Hall, I have never met you, yet, so I will call you Mr. Hall until I get to meet you...first I want to say I admire your marketing brains, basically inventing the whole registery thing was sheer marketing genius. Second of all, I want to say thank you for putting yourself out there on the chopping block, most people in your situation (one of the coin god's) would just sit back ignore us little people and count your money (three million five hundred forty three, three million five hundred forty four, three million five hundred forty five) I think that you can give and get a little hear, and as long as you have a thick skin (not only a normal forum contributor needs a three foot skin, but being the major owner, your going to need 10 feet thick skin)
For the most part I think you will learn that the people around here have a real passion for coins, and that carries over into the wordspeak, I really admire many, many people hear for many different reasons, and I think with time you will truly enjoy the boards.
Thanks again, I am seriously stunned that you would take time to be a presence hear, and so tickled pink that you would.
God Bless
morris <><
** I would take a shack on the Rock over a castle in the sand !! **
Don't take life so seriously...nobody gets out alive.
ALL VALLEY COIN AND JEWELRY
28480 B OLD TOWN FRONT ST
TEMECULA, CA 92590
(951) 757-0334
www.allvalleycoinandjewelry.com
<< <i>Your first item of business tomorrow should be to start the search to hire a marketing professional to teach you and your staff how to run your business without tripping over yourself at every step. >>
You might be a great Dad a great retailer of coins and a great grader and a great writer but you cannot know everything. Gmarguli was right on point there.
#2 Get Tradedollarnut on your board. Now that is a fellow that knows what is going on yet he has the collector's perspective.
#3 Form a customer oversight advisory board to make sure that the customers are getting proper service with appropriate responses on body bagging for instance. Also helpful in getting better feedback and suggestions for improvements.
#4 Form a dealer advisory/oversight board so that the dealers have a place to get their views heard. This is a must.
#5 Form a collector advisory board so that the collectors interests are heard as well.
#6 Form an office of an inspector general (internal control) to keep everyone honest among all divisions of CLCT including you. Your CPA firm and the SEC will jump with joy to hear if this is done.
#7 Form a Grading oversight board to make sure that the interests of collectors & dealers and the general public are being served with appropriate grading......apparently, a major concern these days is the consistency of grading at PCGS....such grading oversight board would have kept this problem in check long ago.
#8 Form a Marketing ideas advisory board with many members to offer new ideas to CLCT for future products. Does not mean all or even most will be accepted. But the customers will have a chance to be heard.
The best thing of this is it is mostly at low cost......meetings can be held at major shows and throw members who contribute some grading certificates as a "thank you" and perhaps even some PCGS samples as well. Throw in the coffee and soda and even I might show up.
David...you can't do it all...........this company is too large for you to be everywhere.........empower your employees to do more and especially to be more responsive. This should be done with the other divisions as well. This will only take some of the tiome pressure off of you as well.
Also get your customers engaged. Get your ex-customers like GMarguli to give/spill more of his guts as what is wrong with PCGS. I certainly do not agree with all or even most of what he has said but there is enough there worth listening to.
The customer base of PCGS dealer, collector and otherwise needs to be heard. You need to start setting up more formalized channels to communication to get the ball rolling.
Time is of the essense and Dave Bowers must also get into this equation somehow as well.
Just some of my ideas that I wanted to get on paper.
We have spoke before on the telephone. You do listen. But this was too much for a telephone call.
Best,
IMO, the main "board" PCGS should be focusing on now and in the immediate future is THIS ONE!!! The answers to sustaining PCGS as the #1 grading company in the eyes of numismatists are right here, just waiting to be read and digested by influential PCGS employees and managers.
Heed the Call, David Hall! We are the eyes, ears, and noses of the numismatic community! I am willing to bet that there is no one on this board that doesn't want to see PCGS continue to maintain the success and respect that it has enjoyed all these years. PCGS just has to take some time out of their oh-so-busy schedule to listen to us.
These advisory or oversight boards cannot merely "meet" on the internet. The internet is fine up to a certain point for these boards but a face to face real meetings with employees of the PCGS, PSA etc. as well as other board members is very much in order and for those who are not big internet users as well.
Without more formalized "boards" then it will be too easy for the internet posters to quiet down and do nothing when some of the problems go away. There must be a continued effort not only to "correct" problems of the past and present but also to be proactive down the line.
I am not suggesting that all boards be set up at once. But we must get started and fast. This process will take about 6 months to get all the boards up and running. Sometimes boards do die off from lack of interest as well. But that should not stop the effort from continuing.
Great job on itemizing the problems. I hope that David will take to heart each issue and address them here on this forum. I am now submitting my first coins to NGC because of the inconsistancies mentioned on this board. It would make good business sense for PCGS to listen and correct these issues ASAP.
Thanks!
J. P.
Out of the closet Morgan lover
In God We Trust.... all others pay in Gold and Silver!
peacockcoins