Please, your opinion on my bust dollar..Grade?

Ogden

I inherited this coin from my great grandfather. I'm interested in knowing what the experts think about this coin. It's not a coin that I would feel comfortable grading, specfically mailing because I think it may be a valuable or semi-valuable coin and wouldn't want it lost in the mail. Thanks for your opinions.

Ogden

Ogden

Here's the obverse. I must not have uploaded it right.

Ogden

Beatlemen

Ogden, I would grade it XF-AU. Nice coin, have you thought about getting it slabbed? Also I suggest you keep in an airtite holder to keep it from getting scratched.......

Ogden

Everytime I think about getting it slabbed, I worry that it will be lost in the mail! I guess one day if one of the grading services is in my area, South Carolina, I'll try to get it looked at then. Thanks

Ogden

lazeroo

it's a very nice coin!

but! it appears that some one did a little touch up job on the hair.

but it's still very cool so enjoy it .

DesertLizard

Coins costing tens of thousands are mailed every day. SOme get "lost" [i.e. stolen] the overwhelming majority do not.

Use USPS registered mail and insure it. Have yet to "lose" one coming or going to PCGS or dealers.

coinguy1

Ogden, I truly hope I'm mistaken but it doesn't look genuine to me. I always fear giving opinions based on images but that's the way it looks to me.

DCAMFranklin

Man, that is a gorgeous coin! I'm a big believer in that you have to be up close and personal to properly grade the coin. What I see in that scan leads me to believe it will go AU-50. Send that baby to be graded. You can send the coin fully insured Registered Mail and that baby is 99.8% assured of making the trip. Good luck!

banknote1

The hair detail looks like it has been retooled!? I don't think PCGS would grade the coin. But I could be wrong.

dorkkarl

it appears to be a genuine coin w/ re-engraved hair detail. it is attributable. i would value as xf/xf+

K S

TomB

I'm sorry to break this to you, but that coin is most definitely not original and has at least been heavily tooled, and, at worst, counterfeit.

EVillageProwler

I agree with the detractors. This coin looks funky to me. It's either a beat up replica, or it's a tooled and re-engraved genuine copy. It seems more like the former for a couple of reasons: the luster is all wrong on the obverse, and the hair detail is too much.

But, it could also be genuine and messed with: the wrong luster could be a result of some serious polishing, and the hair detail is some artists' post-production handiwork.

Sorry,

EVP

MrKelso

My boy you have a potentially High priced coin there. If you send it in put plenty of insurance on it. It's going to grade real well for you. Do some book work before you send it.

EVillageProwler

BTW, if you *really* need to know if it's real or not, I can attribute it for you later. If I can attribute it, then it only means that it might be real. If I cannot attribute it, then it means that it is counterfeit.

Anyway, let me know via PM or whatever...

EVP

tjkillian

I could believe it is real, but, like TomB said, HEAVILY tooled.

Tom

Placid

Here is a certified ms 63 so you can see what others are talking about.
Besides the hair the eye on yours looks off might be the picture though.

cardinal

This coin matches the diagnostics for the 1798 Draped Bust dollar, variety Bolender 19 (Bowers-Borckardt 106). Attached are images of the condition census specimen from the San Marino Collection (photo by Goldbergcoins.com). Based on that, I think it is unlikely that the coin is a fake.

Coins of this die variety are typically seen with the vertical obverse die crack from the E in Liberty to the 1 in the date, just as seen on this coin. Generally, this die crack results in weak central hair detail (as seen on the San Marino specimen) even on high grade specimens with a lot of detail on the reverse. So, the distinct appearance of the die crack really makes the high degree of hair detail on this coin very suspicious. I agree with the others that the most likely explanation is a genuine coin with heavy retooling of the hair detail.

The real shame of the coin doctors who do this is that, based on the seemingly original reverse, this coin would be a nice AU specimen even with the originally weak obverse hair detail, and AUs are particularly scarce for this variety.

-- Cardinal

CLASSICS

i have been looking at the stars above the eagle, something doesnt look right, it may very well be a cast, sent it in to be graded, and you will know for sure. many high priced coins get sent in all the time, so i wouldnt worry.

drsvenghali

It's a real coin, i.e. non-counterfiet but heavily retooled in the central portions of the hair. Note that the central hair details do not follow the same lines, are not of the same depth or fineness.

dorkkarl

ogden, your coin has been bugging me all freakin' day. why? i swear i've seen it before.... can you give us a little more history on it? PM if privacy is necessary.

btw, i still think it's real, & B-19 sounds right (1 of most common varieties). i swear i've seen her before, but i just can't place it. seems to me there's a pedigree behind that coin. for some reason, i wanna say either stack's, or b&m... early 1980's maybe???

dang it, i KNOW your coin!!!

anyone else ???

K S

EVillageProwler

Karl,

The 1799 Bol.19 variety is not common at all. It is currently rated as a Rarity-5 variety, with EF specimens being in the condition census.

If it turns out that this specimen is genuine but worked on, then that would be a shame...

EVP

mr1931S

i really don't enjoy being a wet blanket but my first impression on opening up the pics and not reading the comments before this post is that the piece is not genuine...

but if it was mine i would send it to ANACS..thats the ANA authenticators in Colorado Springs,
Colorado...you have to be an ANA member though to make submissions...

you get a photo certificate from them if the piece is genuine...

to those who have suggested that the piece is genuine but hair details have been retooled i would say,"why would anyone do this or have this done to a lightly circulated,apparently undamaged and overall well struck genuine Bust dollar?"

aren't the subjects of retooling usually well-worn and damaged pieces?

dorkkarl

found my notes on b-19!

this morning before breakfast, i confirmed the attribution, B-19. hey evp, your right, was confusing this w/ a 1799 variety w/ a similar die crack. however, i do not believe B-19 is accurately an r.5, i would guess more like r.4. strictly my opinion, based on what i've seen personally.

links to B-19 on heritage:

example 1
example 2
example 3
example 4
example 5

the reason i have records on these, i actually bid on 2 of these coins - didn't win either!

from what i can tell, it is definitely genuine. looks bogus due to the re-engraved hair, which is why i'd be real interested if ogden could give me a little more history on this piece. i am SURE i've seen it before, but can't quite put my finger on it. for some reason, it seems like the guy who reengraved this dollar also reengraved either a 1799 or 1804 large cent hair detail. odgen, if you can, i sure would appreciate your help! i promise complete anonymity & privacy.

i just wanna say "stack's". anybody got some old stacks auction catalogs? i checked mine, no luck, but i don't have many going back to the early 80's

it is an incredibly interesting coin, imo.

K S

Ogden

Is it real or not! In order to determine this I sent it off to ANACS and hope to have an answer in the near future. I will post the answer as soon as I hear back from ANACS. I sent it to ANACS mainly because as long as I'm getting it authenticated (or not) I might as well get it graded. Thanks for all who replied and those who gave your opinions. I'll let you know.

Ogden

IvanOnly

Good luck, hopefully it is real and they give it a decent grade.

mr1931S

this is extremely interesting to me...

ogden's 1798 and heritage's b19 1798 (since there seems to be a consensus that if ogden's dollar is genuine it would be b19)...for a more direct comparison here...the images are all about the same size...i just cut out some of the background,leaving heritage's copyright intact...






giving my image hoster a workout...hope i haven't failed in this endeavour...

ogden's coin has bolder features overall and that can be seen by comparing directly to the heritage coin...

dorkkarl

ogden, it'd be interesting to find out if anyone at anacs has seen the coin before. any chance you might want to ask them? i just think the coin could be pedigreed, which might get you a bit more value.

i have no doubt it'll come back genuine, i'd venture a guess at net xf-40.

K S