Very important information. Recent Coin Vault thread addressed in full
wingedliberty
Posts: 4,805 ✭✭✭
The recent thread "Coin Vault man should die" has raised a variety of opinions and responses to
how these scoundrels operate, the legality or lack thereof , and also what should be done. Several
members have said that they are no better than regular dealers who rip off the public every day and
that if we really care, we should act on it. I would like to address each of these points in detail so that
members know exactly where I stand and what I have done.
1.These TV coin "conman" are far worse than any dealer due to the following actions.
-The prices they charge are many multiples higher than any dealer I know of, both in print ,internet,
and at shows.
2."But they are exposing more people to the hobby", HOGWASH!!!!, They are detracting more people
from the hobby!!, When these new collectors become hard up for money or the heirs inherit their
items, they will try to sell it to a local dealer, What do you think their immpression of the hobby will
be when they are offered a fair price for their coins, which is multiples lower than what they paid for
at CoinVault.
3. "They are no better than Littleton", I agree!!!,, Littleton is just as bad, especially their approval
program that is hatched on the unsuspecting public.
4. "You should take real action and complain with the FTC" . I have been very active through ICTA,
THE FTC, ANA, and PNG, and every other ogranization that I have written to on numerous occasions.
I have also written to my local representatives and the legislature.
5. The hobby protection act covers many things, but I was told that it does not cover how much
of a price can be charged for a numismatic item!!!. , I am still trying to get a copy of it through the
Freedom of Information Act. I hope that it covers false allegations of appreciation and outright
lies. Here is an example of outright lies that have been touted on these demonic shows.
1. Outright lies about a certified coin's population ," Folks there are only a few of these!!"
2. Outright lies about how much it costs them to certify a coin!!!!
3. Outright lies about a coin's history and precious metal content.
4. Outright lies about colorized coins being produced by the US mint.
5. Outright lies about a coin's appreciation potential. They are lies because nobody can tell the
future.
6. Outright lies about ICG being the leading grading service. Its number 4 at best!!!!, Also they
have said for example "There are only 89 MS70 coins out there folks!!!, " What about all
the other 7 grading services out there, They should have said there are "89 ICG MS70's out there"
7. Outright lying about what others charge for similar coins, by quoting a single airplane catalog and
saying that this is the predominant price in the industry, BULLCRAP!!!, Its actually 30% of that!!
Obviously they are doing a dance right on the tip of the law, but its vile, unethical, and disgusting,
Some of these pigs are afraid to show their face at a show because they have stiffed so many dealers
on bulk purchases of American Eagles and Modern Commems, they are also slow payers, I can't blame
the grading services because these guys often submitt under aliases or through dealers. I will
continue to stay vigilant and urge the FTC to take action. Your input is welcome.
Happy collecting,
Brian.
how these scoundrels operate, the legality or lack thereof , and also what should be done. Several
members have said that they are no better than regular dealers who rip off the public every day and
that if we really care, we should act on it. I would like to address each of these points in detail so that
members know exactly where I stand and what I have done.
1.These TV coin "conman" are far worse than any dealer due to the following actions.
-The prices they charge are many multiples higher than any dealer I know of, both in print ,internet,
and at shows.
2."But they are exposing more people to the hobby", HOGWASH!!!!, They are detracting more people
from the hobby!!, When these new collectors become hard up for money or the heirs inherit their
items, they will try to sell it to a local dealer, What do you think their immpression of the hobby will
be when they are offered a fair price for their coins, which is multiples lower than what they paid for
at CoinVault.
3. "They are no better than Littleton", I agree!!!,, Littleton is just as bad, especially their approval
program that is hatched on the unsuspecting public.
4. "You should take real action and complain with the FTC" . I have been very active through ICTA,
THE FTC, ANA, and PNG, and every other ogranization that I have written to on numerous occasions.
I have also written to my local representatives and the legislature.
5. The hobby protection act covers many things, but I was told that it does not cover how much
of a price can be charged for a numismatic item!!!. , I am still trying to get a copy of it through the
Freedom of Information Act. I hope that it covers false allegations of appreciation and outright
lies. Here is an example of outright lies that have been touted on these demonic shows.
1. Outright lies about a certified coin's population ," Folks there are only a few of these!!"
2. Outright lies about how much it costs them to certify a coin!!!!
3. Outright lies about a coin's history and precious metal content.
4. Outright lies about colorized coins being produced by the US mint.
5. Outright lies about a coin's appreciation potential. They are lies because nobody can tell the
future.
6. Outright lies about ICG being the leading grading service. Its number 4 at best!!!!, Also they
have said for example "There are only 89 MS70 coins out there folks!!!, " What about all
the other 7 grading services out there, They should have said there are "89 ICG MS70's out there"
7. Outright lying about what others charge for similar coins, by quoting a single airplane catalog and
saying that this is the predominant price in the industry, BULLCRAP!!!, Its actually 30% of that!!
Obviously they are doing a dance right on the tip of the law, but its vile, unethical, and disgusting,
Some of these pigs are afraid to show their face at a show because they have stiffed so many dealers
on bulk purchases of American Eagles and Modern Commems, they are also slow payers, I can't blame
the grading services because these guys often submitt under aliases or through dealers. I will
continue to stay vigilant and urge the FTC to take action. Your input is welcome.
Happy collecting,
Brian.
0
Comments
<< <i>. "You should take real action and complain with the FTC" . I have been very active through ICTA,THE FTC, ANA, and PNG, and every other ogranization that I have written to on numerous occasions. I have also written to my local representatives and the legislature.
>>
What type of responses have you gotten?
<< <i>Everything they say boarders on outright lies and nobody is forcing these people to buy thier product. People should know what they are buying BEFORE they buy it. Just my opinion. >>
That is the problem- people trust the information they are given. Ignorance? Yes, but that doesn't give the company a right to make claims which cannot be supported such as those regarding published prices, making them LIES.
While people may trust too much, it is the company's responsibility not to lie in order to get sales. If the company told the truth in reference to things like prices, they wouldn't get ONE FREAKING SALE! The customers can't be blamed for what is, in truth, a lie.
that it would be very hard to take action and prove intent to defraud. I think the best course of action
would be to have the hobby police itself more vigilantly and not accept advertising dollars from the likes
of ACG, and Littleton as well. I have also recommended that the ANA take out a major ad in one of
the nations leading publications like USA today, to warn people about such things, like the quasi mints
who advertise there, like the National mint, and Washington mint LLC as well as Coin Vault. The
ANA has 30,000 members, if each member donated $5, that would be $150,000, that should buy some
ad space in USA today or Newsweek. What do you guys think!!!, I would be willing to donate $50
to such a cause right now!!, but I fear that they are to fearful of being sued or loosing the constant
flow of ad dollars from ACG, etc.
Brian.
<< <i>1. Outright lies about a certified coin's population ," Folks there are only a few of these!!"
2. Outright lies about how much it costs them to certify a coin!!!!
3. Outright lies about a coin's history and precious metal content.
4. Outright lies about colorized coins being produced by the US mint.
5. Outright lies about a coin's appreciation potential. They are lies because nobody can tell the future.
6. Outright lies about ICG being the leading grading service. Its number 4 at best!!!!, Also they have said for example "There are only 89 MS70 coins out there folks!!!, " What about all
the other 7 grading services out there, They should have said there are "89 ICG MS70's out there"
7. Outright lying about what others charge for similar coins, by quoting a single airplane catalog and saying that this is the predominant price in the industry, BULLCRAP!!!, Its actually 30% of that!! >>
i have seen their commercials numerous times, & do not see a single shred of evidence that shows they lied about any of these 7 points. they do however look like, opinions. your out of luck if you think your going to attack the problem on the basis of "lies".
K S