VAM Help

radiofrek

I pick this up at the Baltimore show yesterday. I need some on the Die variety. Looking it and comparing in the VAM book, it looks like a VAM 11 but according to SSDC/VAMLink there's no such thing. Any clues???
VAMLink

radiofrek

Try these.

Dog97

You have a great pict but it is too small for attributing vams. Don't I see some tf ends sticking out from under tf 2-3? Maybe check vams 35-40?
Since the vam book was printed there have been thousands of new, chenged and deleted entries and it looks like vam 11 is actually a type of vam 14.

DMWJR

rf -- give us a close up of the small feathers next to the legs on both sides, and then give us a close up of the area around the front of the eye and the eyelash. Then I will know enough to either tell you the variety or ask another question.

radiofrek

Here's a closeup

DMWJR

Sorry dude, still not close enough to make a positive ID, although your pick did narrow it down a bit. It looks like an A1d reverse, which would make it a VAM 6, 7, 14.5, or 14.8. Can you get any closer? If I can verify that it is an A1d reverse, I have two follow up questions, which would determine which of the four it would be.

bigt

Thought I had a VAM 11 a few years ago, spoke with Michael Fey about it and he said the VAM 11 had to have a tripled E {E Pluribus}, it is generally considered not to exist, but a lot of us stiill search.
Regards,
Tim

Cam40

Wow.Even at that close range it still can`t be recognized for what VAM it is.Shoot,I,ve seen more dramatic machine-doubling than anything I can see from that last closeup.Wow.
Isnt this really nit-picking for a variety?hmmm
Also all the re-writes for the VAM book(s).How discouraging is that....uggh.

Cam40

WHICH raises the question...Do coin collectors have too much time and/or money on their hands?

Gilbert

ahem!

Am I missing something? I cant find any images to even try to attribute, nor do I see where they were removed by editing.

You know I love this VAMing, so let me have a shot too?

radiofrek

That last scan is the best I can do with a 50KB size limit on uploads. Thanks Doug!

Tim, I see some doubling on the E but it's hard to tell in slab with scratches.

radiofrek

radiofrek

Cam40

Those are nice pics.Can I guess the grade?
PCGS...graded it.....MS64.
How close am I.

Gilbert

Well, it is definitely the A1d reverse, but there are a few other possible obverses, although, it looks to me to be VAM 14.8 or VAM6.
I'll give you some diags to check, rather than asking for a close-up of the obverse, as the obverse is truly the determinant, in this case.

VAM 14.8 obverse has a double spike in front of Liberty's eye and a string of die chips horizontally at about the bottom of the eyeball; no significant doubling in the date, but die chips in the lower loop of the first eight.

VAM 6 obverse has the remains of die polishing lines "vertically" through the tip of Liberty's eyelid, slightly doubled eights and a strongly doubled seven (left side of vertical shaft), There may also be a die crack from the "V" of Liberty's neck to the first left star.

Several of the other choices have a "open" polished nostril, which yours doesn't appear to have, and VAM 14-19, currently known mostly circulated has a die crack after the 2nd eight and most of the its other diags are die polishing lines. Also, none of any recent "published" new 8tf discoveries have the A1d reverse.

So, check these diags, and let us know, please.

BTW, that is a very nice specimen, probably worthy of a gem grade. Should you be willing to part with it, I've got first dibs.

DMWJR

After looking at the scan of the entire reverse, I would agree with Gilbert and withdraw VAMs 7 and 14.5. Those two have to have the spiked A in States (a horizontal line at the crossbar that extends past both sides of the A).

Most likely, this is a VAM 6, because that is far more common than 14.8 (not that 6 is common). If you could give us a close up of the eye and eyelid, like you did with the reverse, we might be able to nail if for you.


FOR ALL YOU NON-VAMMERS: It's not a case of time or money. If you love a series, and are very detailed oriented, then you will seek out the die varieties. Most of the varieties do not trade at a premium, but there are some that trade at multiples. The varieties are often not microscopic either. Most of these are identifyable with a 5x or 10x loupe. I look at all coins with a loupe anyway, and graders grade at 10x. To me it is no different than Large Cent and Half Cent die varieties, or any other similar series. Heck with three cent silver and half dimes, you need a loupe just to see the coin!

Gilbert

Hey Doug,

We are going to have to do some VAMing. I am currently engulfed in the 1878 varieties, and although, I currently have only two (bought and sold numerous and of course regret every minute after) I would like to start again. Are you just a collector, or do you have some inventory you would part with. Actually, I would like to track down some of the originals I made. I have the certificate numbers, if they are still slabbed, but that is just about a futile effort. Any particular year varieties you are after, or are you doing the Top100/Hot50 thing? Right now I am concentrating on my Franklins and silver Washington quarters, but I will grab a 1878 VAM when circumstances are right. 8tf, 7/8tf, B-1 reverses, anything in '78. Keep me in mind, and if you have other dedicated VAMers trying to dispose of some, point them my way.

I'm still trying to find out if "morganluver" is the same VAMer sniping me when I think I've cherried a VAM on eBay.

DMWJR

Gilbert, I'm glad to meet another VAM'er. Morgan Varieties are soooo extensive, I am currently confined to 78's. I have many other date/mm varieties, but the 78's just keep me coming back. I have two complete BU sets of 7/8 TF's (except the second 44 which is a 55), and all of the 8TF's except a few of the ultra rarities. Most of them I have in duplicate and sometimes three and four copies. I can't seem to part with them. I am dying for a 215 which is the 7TF-R79 Proof, which is RARE, RARE, RARE. I have duplicates of the proofs 14.3, 14.8, and 131. I should sell some of them, but I can't, can't, can't . . . I lack about 15 of the 7TF's. If I decide to let some of them go, I will keep you on the list. Mike Andrews ($usiesbeep@aol.com) is a good source of VAM's of all years. He is in close contact with Jeff Oxman, and is very fair on grade and pricing.

By the way, there is a newly discovered 8TF out there . . . 14.20 . . . . with a tripled date and the same reverse as the 14.2 . . . . keep you eyes peeled.

I am still a VAM'er in training, and owe much of my knowledge and experience to Joseph Feld, who has discovered many Morgan and Peace varieties, and has taken a lot of his time and used a lot of patience to educate me.

VAMLINK is the best source on the net, and Jeff has promised an update soon, so keep checking the site.

radiofrek

cam40 you are absolutely correct. Good eye!