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What Makes a Coin Cameo or Deep Cameo?

I know that they are very shiny with a mirror like effect but can any coin be designated Cameo or Deep Cameo if they are shiny enough or are they created by design to be that way?

Comments

  • nwcsnwcs Posts: 13,386 ✭✭✭
    Do you mean prooflike surfaces or how a coin is designated cameo and deep cameo?
  • Either. Are Proof-like surfaces considered Cameo?
  • nwcsnwcs Posts: 13,386 ✭✭✭
    They're not the same. prooflike surfaces refer to the lack of luster and high reflectivity of a coin. Many coins can have genuine prooflike luster, but the designation is mostly for Morgan dollars. Cameo refers to devices that are frosted (not reflective) and a field that is prooflike. (for circulation strike coins) and refers to a proof coin with frosty devices. It creates a contrast between the field and device. Deep cameo means more frost and a bigger contrast. And the field must be very reflective with little distortion or frost in it.

    If you click on the PCGS link at the top of the page, you can go to their lingo section and learn more about these terms.
  • RussRuss Posts: 48,514 ✭✭✭
    It is the contrast between the devices (raised surfaces) and the fields (flat surfaces). The devices should be "frosted" - no shinyness, and the fields mirrored and shiny. The difference between CAM and DCAM is sometimes nothing more than the whim of the grader. Examples:

    imageimageimage

    The first coin is not a CAM, the second coin is a CAM, and the third is a DCAM. The major difference between the second and the third is the depth or "blackness" of the mirrors. Also, the contrast must appear on both sides of the coin in order to receive the designation.

    Russ, NCNE
  • nwcsnwcs Posts: 13,386 ✭✭✭
    Great picture examples. Speaks 3000 words.
  • mnmcoinmnmcoin Posts: 2,165
    I always refer to a woman's "cameo" broach that are popular. Where the central portrait usually a lady is in distince white ivory while the backround is usually another color, like red or green. Anyway if you know what I am talking about it is the same for proof coins. I assume this is where they got the term. Cameo or Deep cameo is a term given to a proof coin that exhibits a black and white contrast between the fields (low portion of coin) and the devices (raised portion of the coin, usually the bust and letters) The black is the fields and the white are the devices.

    This is caused by an etching of the dies in an acid bath, the fields of the dies were then polish with a diamond compound to nearly flawless mirror like perfection. Since the devices of the coin are in sharp recess they did not have their surfaces polished and left with an etching that created the white frost like appearance.

    morris <><
    "Repent, for the kindom of heaven is at hand."
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  • OK. Let me reword my question. Does any new coin produced have the potential to be a Cameo or Deep Cameo or does the mint purposely create Cameos and Deep Cameos? Kapish?
  • RussRuss Posts: 48,514 ✭✭✭
    The mint has purposely produced cameo and deep cameo proof coins since the mid '70's. Prior to that it occured only with early dies, thus CAM and DCAM proofs from the earlier period are scarcer. Nowadays, pretty much every proof set is Deep Cameo.

    Russ, NCNE
  • DHeathDHeath Posts: 8,472 ✭✭✭
    Justin, modern proof coins are intended to be cameo, or deep cameo depending on your luck when purchasing. Mint set coins, and regular circulation strikes are not.
    Developing theory is what we are meant to do as academic researchers
    and it sets us apart from practitioners and consultants. Gregor
  • DHeathDHeath Posts: 8,472 ✭✭✭
    Fingers were too fast, sorry about the double enterdre.image
    Developing theory is what we are meant to do as academic researchers
    and it sets us apart from practitioners and consultants. Gregor
  • Russ,

    Very nice examples and pictures! Well Done!

    Dan
    Dan
  • Thanks everybody. Now it is perfectly clear image
  • It is also easier to make a DCAM coin from PCGS by slipping a Benji inside the flip opposite the coin - a Jackson will only get you a CAM. Too bad PCGS doesn't use the payola to buy glasses for the graders!
    ahhhh....... SODO MELVIN?????
  • RussRuss Posts: 48,514 ✭✭✭
    Tim,

    You're among friends, no need to soft peddle it. Tell us how you really feel.image

    Russ, NCNE
  • As far as 1986-2002 Gold Eagles why are most non-Cameo yet some are? Just the luck of the draw?
  • They are created on purpose - the fields of the dies were polished and the devices were sandblasted or treated with acid.

    DCAM and Ultra Cameo coins are differentiated by two qualities --

    the mirror-like qualities of the fields and

    the degree of the frostiness of the devices.

    A DCAM or Ultra Cam ideally has very frosty devices (with minimal areas that lack frost) and very mirror-like fields.

    A Cameo coin lacks one or both of the qualities (relatively speaking) of the DCAM or Ultra Cam coins

    and non-designated coins lack even more of the two qualities that Cameo coins have.

    Kinda like....uh...uh.....uh.....I can't think of anything right now that it's like. Sorry.

    (but hey, don't listen to me, I'm not a numismatist)

    adrian


  • I am thinking about buying a Deep Cameo PCGS PR69DCAM 2000 1 oz. Gold Eagle. I love how they look. Am I correct in assuming that this coin before it was graded was a Proof and an MS69 Gold Eagle was not a Proof?
  • Yes. PCGS uses PR to mean Proof. They use MS to mean Mint State. Proof coins were made for collectors while most MS coins are made for circulation.

    The modern MS gold bullion and silver commemeratives are also made for collectors as those never circulate. This is a little confusing to me. These super quality MS coins don't have the mirror like fields nor frosty devices of a proof. While they look very nice I prefer the look of deep cameo proof coins.

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