Baltimore Show
TomB
Posts: 21,206 ✭✭✭✭✭
Hey Folks:
It’s been nearly two months since I’ve last posted on these Boards but I thought that I might be able to add something constructive today so here I am. To those who had occasion to ask, via PM or email, I have written that I am simply too busy at work to really spend time on the Boards of late. However, in truth, it was also that I had become tired of the tenor of the Boards, especially where it concerned the signal-to-noise ratio and the quantity, nature and origin of that noise. In other words, I felt that the conservation of my limited free time, by withdrawing my numismatic experience as a resource, was more important than cutting through all various agendas on the Boards.
I just returned from the Baltimore show and I thought I would share my observations of the inventory available and the market for any who might be curious. Baltimore is definitely a show that I would not want to do on a Saturday, as there is so much material on the floor that disappears before then. I noticed that although there are still a large number of toned Morgans available that these Morgans are more highly concentrated on the tables of a few dealers than at any time that I can recall. It seems that you were always able to find some truly choice, toned Morgans throughout the floor with some poking, but now the floor seems dried up unless one goes to those dealers that specialize in toned coins. There also were not nearly as many wildly attractive or even very attractive commems available. The volume of all commems seemed low, but that of the truly nice pieces, white or toned, seemed especially low. Also, neatly toned Mercs were scarce as were cool Washingtons. Although, if you had the money, there were some very nicely toned coins of both of these series available, I just thought the money was a bit steep at times. There also were not that many nice Indian cents around. On the other hand, there was a fairly large inventory of nice Seated material. Please note that nice Seated material is not to be confused with nice modern material, there are two standards in place here. Attractive, lightly toned Barber quarters were also there to be had as were early, problem-free (a relative term) type coins from Flowing Hair and Draped Bust to Capped Bust material in all denominations. A larger number of attractively toned Franklins had appeared than I can recall seeing previously. Gold seemed to be hot and there were certain large volume buyers of silver trying to get more coinage. Please keep in mind that these are merely my personal observations, others may have or might experience a different show in some or all aspects and I might not be privy to a large number of deals that could change the landscape of the immediate hobby area. In other words, your mileage may vary.
I was able to meet with a number of Board members, some of whom I already knew in person such as gsaguy, TBT and griffin6 while others I had not met in person and only knew from the Boards or emails such as toningintheblood, ANACONDA and gemtone65. From this show I was able to buy three coins and a token for myself; a truly original and attractive raw 1936-S Washington that will grade MS65 and that has small flakes of red, green and blue color lightly on the obverse and some auburn peripheral speckles on the reverse, a 1958 Washington with superb obverse toning and a blast-white reverse undergraded MS65 by PCGS, a wonderful and playful RB/PL Middlesex Pidc*o*ck’s token (D&H422) with steel blue and green highlights and an 1899 Indian cent slabbed NGC MS67RB. The Indian cent has the most superb smooth, intense cherry red color on both sides; I had always told myself that if I could find an intense, cherry red Indian cent that I would do what it took to buy it and that happened at this show. Also, I was able to buy a few other coins that I thought were exceptionally cool but that I have reserved for a good friend of mine whom I believe will truly appreciate the pieces.
It’s been nearly two months since I’ve last posted on these Boards but I thought that I might be able to add something constructive today so here I am. To those who had occasion to ask, via PM or email, I have written that I am simply too busy at work to really spend time on the Boards of late. However, in truth, it was also that I had become tired of the tenor of the Boards, especially where it concerned the signal-to-noise ratio and the quantity, nature and origin of that noise. In other words, I felt that the conservation of my limited free time, by withdrawing my numismatic experience as a resource, was more important than cutting through all various agendas on the Boards.
I just returned from the Baltimore show and I thought I would share my observations of the inventory available and the market for any who might be curious. Baltimore is definitely a show that I would not want to do on a Saturday, as there is so much material on the floor that disappears before then. I noticed that although there are still a large number of toned Morgans available that these Morgans are more highly concentrated on the tables of a few dealers than at any time that I can recall. It seems that you were always able to find some truly choice, toned Morgans throughout the floor with some poking, but now the floor seems dried up unless one goes to those dealers that specialize in toned coins. There also were not nearly as many wildly attractive or even very attractive commems available. The volume of all commems seemed low, but that of the truly nice pieces, white or toned, seemed especially low. Also, neatly toned Mercs were scarce as were cool Washingtons. Although, if you had the money, there were some very nicely toned coins of both of these series available, I just thought the money was a bit steep at times. There also were not that many nice Indian cents around. On the other hand, there was a fairly large inventory of nice Seated material. Please note that nice Seated material is not to be confused with nice modern material, there are two standards in place here. Attractive, lightly toned Barber quarters were also there to be had as were early, problem-free (a relative term) type coins from Flowing Hair and Draped Bust to Capped Bust material in all denominations. A larger number of attractively toned Franklins had appeared than I can recall seeing previously. Gold seemed to be hot and there were certain large volume buyers of silver trying to get more coinage. Please keep in mind that these are merely my personal observations, others may have or might experience a different show in some or all aspects and I might not be privy to a large number of deals that could change the landscape of the immediate hobby area. In other words, your mileage may vary.
I was able to meet with a number of Board members, some of whom I already knew in person such as gsaguy, TBT and griffin6 while others I had not met in person and only knew from the Boards or emails such as toningintheblood, ANACONDA and gemtone65. From this show I was able to buy three coins and a token for myself; a truly original and attractive raw 1936-S Washington that will grade MS65 and that has small flakes of red, green and blue color lightly on the obverse and some auburn peripheral speckles on the reverse, a 1958 Washington with superb obverse toning and a blast-white reverse undergraded MS65 by PCGS, a wonderful and playful RB/PL Middlesex Pidc*o*ck’s token (D&H422) with steel blue and green highlights and an 1899 Indian cent slabbed NGC MS67RB. The Indian cent has the most superb smooth, intense cherry red color on both sides; I had always told myself that if I could find an intense, cherry red Indian cent that I would do what it took to buy it and that happened at this show. Also, I was able to buy a few other coins that I thought were exceptionally cool but that I have reserved for a good friend of mine whom I believe will truly appreciate the pieces.
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Comments
Really good to hear from you again. Thank you for your observations on the Balitmore show.
As for your reasons for not posting in a while... I kind of felt that was the case. Really miss your posts. They were, and are, always worth while. Please keep in touch when time allows.
Carl
<< <i>Middlesex Pidc*o*ck’s token (D&H422) >>
Excuse me? Now what kind of post is that??!! You come back after hiding for two months and talk like that. What is the world coming to? LOL
Nice to have you back. You are correct about the message board lately. It has been quite tiresome at times. I always looked forward to your posts and it is sad that you've decided to step back a bit. But I certainly can't blame you though....
I also like the fact that the term "signal to noise" is being used. That's a good engineering term I know something about!
jom
I couldn't justify the trip this time, but hope to make it in the spring.
Check out the Southern Gold Society
Thanks
Mark
I had to choose F.U.N over Baltimore due to some 'once in a lifetime' auction coins I just have to get a peek at, but hope to make it down there soon. Indian cents, especially the more affordable dates, have been thin everywhere. That 1899 67RB sounds wonderful, perhaps even more deep red than RB. Like this one.
LSCC#1864
Ebay Stuff
I was there Friday - certainly agree with you about the dearth of Indian Head cents. It seemed to me that the offerings were much less than what was available at the Spring show in Baltimore - and very, very few varieties - which were mainly what I was looking for. But Friday seemed to be an ideal day to go - not overly crowded. It was fun.
Nice hearing from you again.
Kevin
My 1866 Philly Mint Set
I too am glad you have returned.The info about the show is right on.The rest of us did meet today at the show.We did breifly meet Mark from Pinnicale Coins.He took ill and had to leave,but was gracious enough to stay long enough to say hi.Tootawl,flying56eagle,goose3,sydysta,mdwoods,kranky and I all scoured the floor.We also met GSAguy,toneingintheblood,ANACONDA,andTBT.There were a few no shows,their loss.I also had the great pleasure to meet Gerry of this board,class act !This was positively the biggest show in Baltimore in the (5)years I've been going.All of the dealers I spoke to said the show was a success.There was a lot of dealer to dealer sales.It seemed everyone had want lists from their customers.
I did get a personal triumph!!! I submitted one of my babies(1937 PR66RD)for regrade.It came back as a PR67RD,makeing it a pop 7/0.I must admit the former owner of this coin(DWJR)believed it had a chance,I too thought it had a chance.I took it to Andy(Angel Dees)and asked for his honest opinion,he believed it had a chance.So off it went.Lucky me!!!! there was a disappointment too.I submitted a 1954 PR68 CAM NGC for crossover.I didn't get it.I did resubmit it for review.I'll have to let you know how it turns out.It was the last coin I need to complete my Registry Set.
Registry 1909-1958 Proof Lincolns
Good to hear from both of you. Sounds like the Show was a success.
Thanks for the Show updates.
Ken
Richard
Instead of starting another one about Baltimore I figured I'd post my impressions here also. And I'm sorry that I will be long-winded, so feel free to skip ahead to the next post.
This was the first show of this size (1000 dealers!) I've been to.
The Auction: I got there Thursday and, since I didn't pay the $75 to get early admission to the bourse, I went directly to the auction lot viewing. I requested and was given a catalog (thanks for the tip, Cameron) and then spent a wonderful 4 hours just looking at coins. If you ever have the chance to do this, I recommend you take advantage of it.
You sit at a long table, and sitting on the other side of the table is a number of people from Bowers and Merena who get you want you want to see (one B&M person for each two people viewing lots). You are given a sheet to put your name/address on, and it has a series of numbers on it. Each number corresponds to a box of auction lots. You circle the numbers for the boxes you want to see and give the sheet back to the helper. She has someone get one of the boxes you circled and bring it to you. They first confirm every item is in the box and then hand the box to you.
You can sit there for as long as you want and look at these incredible coins in a relaxed environment. Coins that were going to sell for $10K, $20K, $50K, handed to you (in holders, of course) for you to study. Not every coin is spectacular, as some would go for a couple hundred dollars. But if you wanted to see a PR68 Barber Half, or a 1792 Half Disme (actually there were TWO in the auction), etc. it was a great opportunity.
When you finish the box they again confirm every item is accounted for, then bring you the next box.
I hadn't planned on bidding but I did go to the auction session on Thursday night. There were five B&M people sitting in the front of the room facing the auction bidders. One was the auctioneer, one was recording the hammer price and winning bidder number for each auction, and one was watching the "book" - the bids that came in via Internet, mail, and phone. The other two people, I'm not sure what they were there for. There were about 40-50 bidders there, somehow I expected there would be many more.
As each lot was started, the person watching the "book" would announce the high bid from the ones that came in in advance.
Here's how I imagined it before I got there: "Lot 123 is a 1855 Large Cent in a NGC MS66RD holder. What is the high bid from the book, please?" "$500" "OK, do I hear $525?...."
Here's how it actually goes:
Auctioneer: Lot 123
Book watcher: $500
Auctioneer (in about 7 seconds, start to finish): $525? (points to bidder) $550? (points to bidder) $600? Anyone? Sold, $550, bidder 876.
If there were only one or two floor bids, it took only about 5-10 seconds per lot. They move fast. You don't have any time at all to think about whether to raise your bid. If you hesitate for a couple of seconds, it's sold and they are on to the next one. They do not announce what any of the lots are, you better have your catalog with you and have already figured out what you wanted to bid on each item. It was very interesting as I hadn't seen it before.
Some of the bidders are representing other people and are trying to keep track of three or four different bidder numbers. Sometimes they got mixed up (they might yell out, "Wait, that last lot should be on number 432") and this annoyed the auctioneer a bit.
Show: Obviously it was huge. PCGS, NGC, ANACS, and PCI were there. Kudos to ANACS for giving free grade opinions on coins (the other guys don't do that), but I was surprised that some people would take a dozen coins at a time over there. Kind of abusing the privilege if you ask me.
Saw one of those unusual PCGS Prestige (is that the name?) slabs (the oblong green ones) with a 1855 Arrows 50c in AU50.
While browsing one case, I saw a slab that had a sticker on it "ANACS POP 6! 2nd FINEST!". The coin? A 1941 Lincoln in MS63BR, 10% off-center. Uhhh, OK. People care about pops on off-center coins?
Fred Weinberg had in his case a printout of the photo from Anaconda's auction with the ACG "MS67" Liberty nickel that was about a G-6 sitting on a photo of a vulture. No explanation why it was in his case, but it was humorous.
A handful of dealers had huge safes behind their tables - huge enough for two (or more) people to fit inside! How the heck do they get them to the show?
I ran into a guy who was in my grading class this summer who was working for a big wholesaler. He told me that one of the things he hears all the time goes like this: He'll offer a slabbed coin to a dealer, and the dealer passes but tells him if he can get it into the next-higher grade holder, he'll pay $X. So the dealer likes the coin, thinks it might upgrade, but isn't interested in trying to do it. Let someone else get aggravated about having to send it in multiple times. But the wholesaler tries, because it's a guaranteed sale at a guaranteed price if he can get the upgrade.
One booth was selling a thing called the Filtered Vac-Vault, a plastic tub that you fill with collectibles and vacuum-seal. Interesting concept.
NGC offered a nice booklet called "Understanding No-Grade Coins" that discussed about 40 different things that can cause your coin to get bodybagged.
kranky shouldn't make smart remarks: I was walking down one aisle just looking in the cases as I went by them, and in one case of Morgans I saw a PCGS slab with a 1893-S Morgan in MS67. Yeah, right, I thought. I looked up at the guy, gestured to the coin and said, "Is that a joke?" The nice older gentleman chuckled and said, "No, that's my coin. I'm Jack Lee." "Hey, nice to meet you, I'm embarrassed!"
Socializing:I had the pleasure of meeting boiler78, CharlieB, gsaguy, ANACONDA, mdwoods, merz2, tootawl, sadysta, Flying56Eagle, goose3, vam44, and Mark Feld (coinguy1). I'm disappointed I didn't get to see griffin6 (I passed him a few times but he was always knee-deep in business), TBT (stopped at your table but you weren't there), and anyone else from here who was at the show. I tried a few times to stop and say hello to Laura but she was busy all the time. Getting to meet some of you in person (and see some of your coins) was one of the highlights for me.
New collectors, please educate yourself before spending money on coins; there are people who believe that using numismatic knowledge to rip the naïve is what this hobby is all about.
<< <i>One booth was selling a thing called the Filtered Vac-Vault, a plastic tub that you fill with collectibles and vacuum-seal. Interesting concept. >>
Was that the big plastic bowl turned upside down on the same table that was selling the microscopes hooked up to a TV? I was wondering what thing was. I thought it was a salad spinner.
Thanks for the updates....if I can't be there I always love to hear about the show! Sounds like things are still rocking along nicely.
Kranky....Glad to see you met Jack Lee
Merz....congratulations on the upgrade! A very nice coin I'm sure!
Check out my PQ selection of Morgan & Peace Dollars, and more at:
WWW.PQDOLLARS.COM or WWW.GILBERTCOINS.COM
Most of the dealers were very friendly and extremely helpful, especially Jim Rottman from Ellesmere Numismatics. Being a Morgan lover I had finally reached Nirvana. Imanaged to buy a 1878 8TF from Dalton Gold and Silver Exchange what a good deal. There wasn't as many moderns as I thought there would be but to see and hold some of the coins that I only saw in pictures was quite a thrill.
this was fantastic start to show surfing.
Out of the closet Morgan lover
<< <i>Was that the big plastic bowl turned upside down on the same table that was selling the microscopes hooked up to a TV? I was wondering what thing was. I thought it was a salad spinner. >>
I remember the booth with the microscopes, but I didn't see the Vac-Vault thing there (it might have been, but I didn't notice it). I saw them at a separate booth nearly all the way back in the corner by the Air-Tite table. I listened to the guy's sales pitch and he obviously was enthusiastic.
radiofrek, that was probably a group of us standing there.
New collectors, please educate yourself before spending money on coins; there are people who believe that using numismatic knowledge to rip the naïve is what this hobby is all about.
I wanted to take a look at a certain coin but the dealer was sitting down near the back of his booth with his back to the table. He was writing something not paying attention to his table. I could have easily picked up a few items, walked away, and he would not have noticed.
At another table, two dealers were too busy playing cards with each other to pay attention to possible buyers.
I can echo most of the sentiments posted earlier. I will say that the really good collectors and dealers are quite friendly and helpful. While I was searching for Mercs I was making casual conversation with a dealer and the gentleman sitting at his table looking at some 19th century material turned and introduced himself to me by saying he put together the William Domineck Nr 2 and 3 all time sets. We talked Mercs for a bit.
For my own collecting purposes, I was able to find a really nice BTW Comm for a friend of mine and I was getting fairly distressed at not being able to find any Mercs that met my criteria, until about 15 minutes before leaving I located a 36-S I have been chasing for quite a while.
Of course you always find an expensive upgrade for a coin you just bought. Ken, there was are really nice 30-P in 67 but the money was a bit much and I really like the 66 I just got from you.
All of the dealers seemed to be pleased with the show and the amount of volume they were experiencing, so that bodes well for the future. I missed the auctions, but plan to make a point of attending in the spring, for the experience if nothing else