(New to Gold) Need some Advice!!!!

Mike921

I have never posted a message here before so please bare with me...

I have been collecting (and everyonce in a while selling) coins for about 8 months now. I have always delt with silver U.S. coins, and have never delt with any gold coins, just felt they were a little more than I wanted to pay for a decent grade coin. Well, recently I ran into a deal I just couldn't pass up. A lady that I work with said that she knew someone that had found a little gold coin and was willing to sell it to her, she told me the date (1849) and denomination and I looked it up and told her for the price she wanted she should jump on it. She ended up selling it to me for $20 more than she paid.

The coin appears to be in uncirculated condition, but wanted to get other opinions about the grade. (Obverse)---------(Reverse)

The dark spots in the picture are not on the coin when looking at it with the naked eye. I have never sent a coin off to be certified before and would like to do that with this coin, could anyone recommend a grading company that is respectable and accurate. I know about PCGS but from what I have read you need to be a member which cost $99 and I am just looking to get this one coin graded for right now.

Also, how does the value of gold coins trend over a period of time so that I will know to either sell it or hold on to it.

Thanks For Your Time,
Michael

Placid

Anacs will do it without joining a club.
www.anacs.com

There is a good picture of a uncirculated 1849 $1 here. Picture
Yours is a closed wreath philadelphia.

merz2

Mike
Wgat you have is a 1849 closed wreath $1 Gold coin.There were 688,567 minted.It appears to be in great condition.The value of an uncirculated coin like yours is about $400.I hope this helps.

TheNumish

Welcome to the boards. I see you're a Redkin fan. Being from DC I say "Go, Skins!!!"

I really think the coin is a poor couterfeit. It may just be the way your scanner handles the color of the coin but the color is way too yellow. Also the denticles around the rim are wrong. I think before you spend the money grading it I'd show it to your local dealer. It's one of those types that someone with experience can spot right away.

darktone

TheNumish is right on the money in my opinion. I really does look fake and these are very commonly faked. I would take it to a local coin dealer and get his opinion before you spend more money on grading it. I hope it all works out good for you and by the way welcome to the forumn. mike

Mike921

Thanks for the responses. Actually I am from Richmond, Va. but still a Redskin fan!!!

I hope this thing is not a fake, it could just be my scanner but I guess that still wouldn't explain the denticals you all were talking about. It is more of a gold color in person. The person that found it is a preacher's wife so I don't think she would purposly pass a fake on. I will have it looked at but if it is I shouldn't have a problem getting my money back. Thanks, for the help

Mike

Mike921

Well, I took it to a small local coin shop and he took a look at it with magnificationand said that the only way to be sure would be to send it off and have it certified. Then he says in his opinion it is a VF and told me it lists $135 but said most dealers would probably only give me F+. I then left and as I was leaving he yells to me "let me know if you wanna sell it!!"

Fake or not I know it's in better condition then F+/VF. He must have thought I was an idiot or something!!

I looked at the scans and they were a little bright and noticed the brightness on the scanner was up high. I adjusted it to the original settings and reposted them.

Obverse---------Reverse

DesertLizard

I also vote "fake".

Let us know! And never buy raw gold, too many pieces have been messed with. One dollar gold has more fakes than any other gold series from what I have seen and been told.

jom

You've been collecting for 8 months so I will tell you from EXPERIENCE: DO NOT BUY RAW GOLD. If you want to buy gold buy it certified. In fact, I'd suggest you not even bother with gold at all until you've been looking at coins for a number of years. I would love to see you avoid the problems I had. Again, run away (as fast as you can) from RAW GOLD...you will get ripped off.

This is only MY opinion based on MY experience. Your mileage my vary.

jom

DaveG

While I wouldn't express an opinion as to whether the coin is genuine or not, since your scans aren't good enough for that, it is true that there are a lot of fake gold dollars out there.

Also, it doesn't sound like the dealer you went to gave you very good advice. A good dealer should be able to spot a counterfeit gold coin. I'd say that if he was willing to buy it, he either didn't think it is a fake, or else he's more than willing to sell counterfeit gold coins. In either event, I wouldn't go back there.

If you want to go to the effort, I'd take the coin to a few more dealers (or a local coin club). If you want to get it slabbed, I think you can submit directly to ANACS.

In any event, although I'm not a specialist in gold dollars, I think the coin might be what Breen calls a "Type IV", that is, a large head, closed wreath, thin numerals coin, which he calls "very rare", although the specialist market for such a coin might be pretty small.



In general, I'd agree that if you want to buy raw gold, you should buy it from a trusted dealer, rather than from a "friend of a friend, who recently 'found' a gold coin."

Edited to add: It's hard to give any general advice about the price behavior of gold coins, because you can divide gold coins into three categories: 1) purely bullion - modern bullion, such as Gold Eagles, etc. or circulated sovereigns, napoleons, etc.; 2) semi-bullion - circulated US pre-1933 gold coins, etc.; and, 3) rare coins - MS US pre-1933 gold, circulated mintmarked rare gold - Carson City, Charlotte, etc. If you're interested in more comments about a specific type of gold coins, let me know.

Mike921

Thanks everyone for your advice and opinions. I am going to send it off to ANACS next week and I will see what happens. I will let the forum know of the outcome. If for some reason it is a fake do they send it back or do they keep it? I would need to show the person I got it from something showing that it wasn't authentic.

I didn't know gold was so risky, sounds worse than dealing in stocks!!

Thanks again,
Mike

Placid

Anacs will send it back to you with the reason stated.

Justin

Again, run away (as fast as you can) from RAW GOLD


jom, I was going to buy raw gold from Tulving Co. who I heard is VERY reliable.

Is it easy to conterfeit US Gold Eagle coins and Gold Bullion bars such as Credit Suisse?


You've been collecting for 8 months so I will tell you from EXPERIENCE: DO NOT BUY RAW GOLD. If you want to buy gold buy it certified. In fact, I'd suggest you not even bother with gold at all until you've been looking at coins for a number of years. I would love to see you avoid the problems I had. Again, run away (as fast as you can) from RAW GOLD...you will get ripped off.

This is only MY opinion based on MY experience. Your mileage my vary.

jom

DaveG

Justin,

Yes, it is fairly easy to counterfeit gold coins. For years, Lebanon has been a center of counterfeit gold coin production.

However, most counterfeiters prefer to counterfeit coins that carry a decent premium to their bullion value, so they produce gold dollars or half eagles. They don't usually counterfeit modern gold bullion coins or small gold bars. (With larger gold or silver bars, you have to be careful that they haven't been filled with lead, however.)

When most collectors caution against buying "raw" gold, they're usually talking about pre-1933 US gold coins, which usually carry a premium to "melt" or bullion value. Such coins lose all or almost all of their numismatic premium if the coin has been abrasively cleaned or polished or worn as jewelry. It's frequently hard for a beginner to tell if the coin has been mistreated when he sees the coin in person and almost impossible to tell from a scan.

michael

i cant tell if it is a counterfeit from the scan nor can i
tell the grade
it is good to send it off to anacs
then you will know for sure

if it is a counterfeit my guesstimate is an EDS struck counterfeit
which are really clever counterfiets but again need to see this coin in
person as the scan i cswnt tell a thing from
that most could not tell but a no brainer for me as i have
studied these EDS counterfiets before and have seen some also!
for me the lebanon counterfeits,
some are really even more deceptive then the EDS coins!!
and those trade dollar fakes recently coming out of asia, and
some would have fooled even me............lol

what did you pay for this coin?????????????????????????????????????
???????????????????????????????????????????
?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

i find your comment that it could not be possibly fake because it was sold to you by a preachers wife

i find that interesting because i think for me you have
to be experienced in gold coins to tell if they
are counterfeit or not

being a preachers wife doesnot make her
a gold coin expert nor does it make her necessarily an honest or dishonest person

for me i think that actions
not words or
credentials shows a persons true colors so to speak

good luck with your coin submission and let me know how it turns out!!

sincerely michael

relayer

An education in buying gold coins raw can be expensive.

After you recieve a few grading services bodybag rejects labeled "Cleaned or Whizzed" and a "Not Genuine" or two maybe you'll want to stick with respected slabs.

coinguy1

Michael,

I believe the coin is a fake and would recommend trying to get your money back ASAP without wasting the time and fees involved in sending it to ANACS. The longer you wait, the more dificult it will be to get your money back. I also concur with others who have recommended that you avoid buying uncertified gold coins. Odds of your getting a fair deal are poor and odds of your getting a bad deal are high.

Mike921

The results are back from the 1849 Gold Dollar I sent to ANACS

1849 Closed Wreath Gold Dollar


I thought it would grade a little higher but it didn't but at least it is real Looks like I paid ($130) just under what PCGS lists it for in AU. The Value in AU-55 or 58 doesn't justify trying to get it upgraded but I wonder if I should have it crossed over to a different holder and if I am lucky maybe it will get upgraded in the process.

coinguy1

I'm gald I was mistaken but would give the same advice again, about not buying uncertified gold coins. You defied the odds once - quit while you're ahead.

Mike921

Oh I hear ya, the anticipation was killing me. I don't plan on buying anymore raw gold from any old plain Jane. I didn't know it was so risky.

It must be really tough to determine between a AU-50 and AU-58 on these small coins.

TheNumish

I'm glad your coin is real. I guess there is a lesson in this for me as well. Not to be so certain about my opinions when looking at a scan.

keets

It must be really tough to determine between a AU-50 and AU-58 on these small coins.

hello michael

along with the above statement you made you may want to include "as well as whether or not a coin is genuine or counterfiet from a scan" because it's really asking alot. what i find most interesting about this thread is that you seem to have located a dealer you should avoid in the future. it seems he was able to determine that the coin was genuine but grossly underestimated it's grade.

at any rate, congratulations on your nice little gem and welcome to a wonderful place for education and discourse.

al h.

tjkillian

Congratulations on the gold dollar! It wasn't even cleaned/whizzed/etc. ANACS is highly respected so you can have a very high degree of confidence in the grading. The coin could easily sell to virtually anyone. This time you rolled the dice and won. May you continue to collect and enjoy them.

Tom

merz2

Well,I was half right.Go figure.I have a 1854 Type 1 $1 Gold in AU58 PCGS.That is what I based my statement on.I'm surprised on the AU50 grade.As most said the scan wasn't good enough to tell.Congrats on it being genuine !

Mike921

Thanks everyone

Well we can put a little of the blame on my scanner, it does very well with showing detail but tends to highlight any color and makes it appear different than the actual coin.

That dealer I took it to was just some hobby shop here in town, I knew what he was trying to do but I just wanted to more or less just see his reaction about it being real or not before sending it in. I knew it was better than F/VF. I just like to pick up his teens Wheat Cents for a $1 a piece maybe I should take it back to him and ask him if he would like to buy it for $400

Thanks Again,
Mike