1977 JIM PALMER PSA 10

downgoesfrazier · November 7, 2002 3:05PM

I would love to find the submitter of this card. I truly hope it's not Dsl or some other volume outfit... I posted on the BST board as well. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks guys.

mikeschmidt · November 7, 2002 9:28PM

Odds are that it is a volumeoutfit -- perhaps Shoeless Joe's. At least that way, you have a stronger chance that the card will show up on Ebay or in some other auction outfit.

downgoesfrazier · November 7, 2002 11:58PM

Marc, if you've seen the 10's that Shoeless turns or Dsl, you'd know why I can't really consider the card a 10. I've handled all but a couple of them and kicked 'em all back. High-end 8's in some cases average 9's in others...still looking for a "virtually perfect" card from those folks. On the other hand, I've had decent luck with 10's from common-folks. It's incredible, but there is quite a difference. A DHCards 10 or Colt McClelland 10 or Phil Apostle 10 is so different from a shoeless 10 it's scary. Often people that turn them do email me (knowing I'm a 77 freak) and I'm hoping that happens here. Thanks for keeping an eye out.

mikeschmidt · November 8, 2002 12:19AM

Downgoesfrazier:

For what it's worth (and I won't 100% disagree with your comments), the 1981 Fleer #5 Mike Schmidt PSA 10's that I've gotten from Rushoeless and DSLSports are just as good as the one I got from my own submissions. But I do understand your point...

aconte · November 8, 2002 12:28AM

MS,

Wouldn't it be easier to distinguish between 77's high end cards versus 81's. I'm no expert on
either. But I thought the 81 Fleers had a different finish/make. The glossy fronts to me
make it harder to tell between nines and tens. I would think it's easier to pick up flaws
on the 77 Topps.

aconte

mikeschmidt · November 8, 2002 1:08AM

Aconte:

For what it's worth -- I have only ever seen in person one or two PSA 10's from 1977. I will tell you that with the numerous 1977 Topps Mike Schmidt PSA 9's I have seen -- I couldn't really tell you on any consistent basis on what the deficiencies were on any of them.

And for what it's worth, in the 1976-1982 run of Topps cards -- I always find flaws on each and every PSA 10 that I've handled -- and I often see PSA 9's that seem to be stronger than the 10's. It happens every time -- and I think I've seen enough Mike Schmidt and other Phillies cards to make that assertion.

Besides centering flaws, print spots or back corner wear -- there is almost no rhyme or reason in my mind on what consistently makes a card from that era a PSA 9 as opposed to a PSA 10.

Kurt · November 8, 2002 1:27AM

My question still remains. Who has the Ryan 10??

aconte · November 8, 2002 2:21AM

MS,

Thanks for the response. Always appreciate your comments!

aconte

Philabuster · November 8, 2002 2:46AM

The Palmer has a good home.

GATOR5 · November 8, 2002 6:10AM

I think this is what frazier is talking about...This is a 81 topps psa 10 tony perez....
Yes sir it sure is 8 at best if I could show you in detail the full scan the whole bottom
of the card is filled with chips...Let alone the corner if you could call it that...I guess
stevie wonder was working along with a six pack...And yes this came from a psa
authorized dealer....

Sorry Joe I gave you full oppurtunity..Have I received the benefit of the doubt
yes sir after sending thousands of cards in yes sir I have. Now have any came
back like this...Hell no!!!! I don't even send in this crap....So here it sits Tony
Perez 1-1 wow!!!!!!!!! Buy the card not the holder....But psa told me it was a 10
so I bought it, I sure did...Guys this is not a one card deal either...I'm not whining
by no means...

If anyone is listening at psa heres a thought. Please assign certain graders,
certain years....For you have graders grading later 70's and early 80's that don't
know the difference between a 9-10, they can't even get the technical side correct.

For instance you have cards in 81 which I know like the back of my hand..If you put
all the unopened if front of me today I could crack it all and would just to prove the
world..That their would be under 25 legit 9's of two certain stars with out a doubt maybe
less...A few commons and stars are nearly impossible let alone in 10's...The uncut
sheets prove it...I pay my money for consistant grading please do so...If you give
a person a 9's or a 10 too keep them sending your only killing the hobby and the market.

Now this is not a harp on the vintage grading which I find to be awesome along with
psa's customer service..

That's the story,,,Guru

PS Sorry for the poor scan can't go over 50...

downgoesfrazier · November 8, 2002 6:48AM

Philabuster,
No need to be coy. Your turn or someone you know?

Marc and Conte,
Nice discussion. My issue is not whether one card gets a 9 vs. the 10. My 77 Madlock (9) is strangely EXACTLY like my Madlock 10. Looks like a vending twin. BOTH are 10-worthy. I don't mind that stuff. My opinion is simple: If you have to forgive ANYTHING on a card...no soup for you. I just shouldn't have 10's with chipping, corner touches, focus problems, no gloss, drab color, roller marks, tilts, registration problems, etc. A 10 should be the one time you buy a card UNSEEN and have a good idea of what you're getting. It should be "virtually perfect". When you open up a card you get in the mail, quickly glance at it and notice a print booger or tilt the moment it hits your palm, you must wonder why didn't the grader see it. Marc, in a way you and I are similar in our collecting. We're both pretty focused. You can spot a Schmidt "dog" a mile away. You've handled enough of them to know. I've handled nearly a third of the 77 9 population and 2/3 of the 10 population...pretty substantial sampling of graded copies. The consistency is brutal. Almost random in some cases. Truly, graders unfamiliar with the issue. I think most whining publicly and privately comes from the select few who have actually gotten to where they know the issue they collect better than the grading company. Inevitable if you stay in one area long enough.

One thing that's tough for me is controlling my ego. Since the registry is a competitive environment, I hate passing on the 10's that I've seen. I'll let a card go because my 9 (or 8!) is stronger, but on PAPER my set will appear weaker to the set with the 10. I just can't justify paying 75-200 bucks for a nice 8. On the other hand I hate seeing the cert # fall into someone elses set who's less discriminating. In this I'm certain I'm not unique. Many set builders I talk with regularily face that decision. Buy the 10 even though it's not worthy just to look good on paper. To date, I have whacked every 10 that I thought was just about there. I stayed away from the Brett RB Dsl ran. I didn't handle that card, but saw the fish-eye in the scan and wondered what else was going on with it. I have gotten better with it lately, though. I was downright militant six months ago. Maybe I'm growing as a person...

Gator: LOVE your idea of the assigment of era-specific graders. I've posed this before and didn't get any feedback. There must be some folks on here who understand the BUSINESS side of things that could set me straight on why this isn't done. There must be an obvious reason we're missing. It sure sounds good, though.

That Perez appears to be...er...uh....buy back time.

Peace to all...

RedHeart54 · November 8, 2002 9:47AM

I know that there has always been controversy about "volume" submitters, but do you think dsl gets that much preferential treatment? Everything I've ever purchased from them seems to be graded fairly.

downgoesfrazier · November 8, 2002 10:23AM

I'm not sure what to think about that. Are you lucky, do you expect less, have a less discerning pallet when it comes to cards...yes, they get the benefit of the doubt. Don't kid youself. It's business and I can't really fault PSA for that. It's just buyer beware. They also have more opportunities to get that benefit, I will grant you that much. I find roughly 20% of what I purchase from them (I no longer purchase from them) to be fairly graded...and interestingly, never an UNdergraded card. This is supposed to be about the Palmer, anyway. We can agree to disagree about certain submitters garbage. I want to see that Palmer!!! The best copy I know of is actually in a GAI slab. I've owned three PSA 9's and the GAI slabbed copy was stronger. That's why it is currently in my set...I'd love to have a crack at the PSA copy, though. Here's hoping

GATOR5 · November 8, 2002 10:36PM

This is about the palmer so lets here the story, beaton is
this you..Come on don't leave us hangin....

Frazier I hope you get a crack at this badboy sorry for the
response with the perez yet I saw the oppurtunity to let
some folk know...If we can't buy cards from certain dealers
with the confidence of getting a nice card then what's the
point. This is in the 10 aspect of it.....You should be able
to take a 10 to the can and have a smile on your face to get
you through the day thinking a own a blazer..Not thinking
you got screwed on a dog or thinking when the next mishap
will happen to drive your investment down...

Guru

rbeaton · November 10, 2002 8:39AM

<< <i>This is about the palmer so lets here the story, beaton is
this you..Come on don't leave us hangin.... >>

Sorry, it's not me.

I am interested in it
if it makes a public appearance.

Robert

downgoesfrazier · November 10, 2002 11:01AM

beaton,
You and I have "talked" about Palmer before...I know you're a big O's fan. The '67 and '77 Palmer are my favorite of his cards...the '77 is among my favorite cards in that whole set (the set I specialize in). It would be nice if a "fan" owned the card...it would also be nice if the card were actually worthy of the grade. Email me for a scan of the best graded '77 Palmer I've ever seen. I've owned 3 PSA 9's and seen 2 others and have gone through 2 SGC 96's--but this is worth a look. It is a GAI 9 and all there. It has the current residence in my set. I just wonder if the PSA 10 can challenge it. I'm not certain where it could, but I'd love to find out! Isn't this whole collecting thing fun...

gaspipe26 · November 10, 2002 1:10PM

I'm a volume submitter and I dont get any 10's.(Unless there SSPC's) I have sent 7-9's that were purchased from "other" large volume dealers, that were just horrible. I sent them back to PSA with 6-8's I received from the same year. On all 7 of the purchased cards there were problems with at least 2 and on 3 cards 3 corners. The 8's had minor and I mean minor touches on 1 corner. You really had to be picky to say they werent 9's. I'm waiting to hear back from PSA, its been over 15 days and no word. I'm wondering if there going to buy back the 9's. They were so bad I wouldnt even resell them because whoever bought them would get mad at me. I really cant wait to hear about these 13 cards.

downgoesfrazier · January 23, 2003 2:04PM

Still lookin' for that Palmer...

rbeaton · January 23, 2003 7:49PM

downgoesfrazier,

It probably wasn't someone like DSL, because it hasn't come on Ebay and it was graded back in Oct/Nov.

Robert

waitilltheytrytosell · January 24, 2003 1:20AM

It's okay, everything is fine, puthegundowngoesfrazier. You possess the finest 77 Garvey card ever made. Look, see, I will pop the 10 out of the holder and ding the corner. You see, everything is okay now. Joe, DSL, please stop those 77 Garvey vending submissions.

downgoesfrazier · January 24, 2003 5:02AM

Waitil,
WTF does that rant have to do with a '77 Palmer? Getting your meds?

GATOR5 · January 24, 2003 5:35AM

WTF,

Please shed some light...Are fraziers cards not worthy...

Matt

waitilltheytrytosell · January 24, 2003 6:33AM

I'm sorry. I made a mistake. I meant Palmer. I just really didn't understand the purpose of your post. I couldn't tell if you were more interested in buying the card, or just wanted to insult the person who now owns the card. Which if it happens to have come from a submission from one of 2 people in the world, you don't even have to see it to know that it's not worthy of the grade.

GATOR5 · January 24, 2003 6:47AM

Wait,

No he wants the card trust me, he just probing frazier needs the best copy of every
77 on the planet...

Matt

downgoesfrazier · January 24, 2003 8:07AM

Waitil,
I'll be more clear...
I would like an opportunity to view, and if properly designated a 10, purchase the card. That's all.
Further, I'll stand behind any comment I've made regarding the consistency with which PSA has been grading this issue.

jackstraw · January 24, 2003 8:40AM

dgf,
i have three sweet 77's to trade for that 76 rice, cmon man its for my first set ever collected as a child.
rbeaton
i am sure you saw the 77 palmer from dsl.
dgf,
did you see this yet and are you the montgomery collection on the registry?

braves72078 · January 24, 2003 10:43AM

Here is another HIGH QUALITY 10 !!!!!!!

1956 PSA 10

GOTTA LUV those rough edges!!!

Now one can't buy a "gem mint" and know what you will receive.

Billy

downgoesfrazier · January 24, 2003 11:33AM

Straw,
I'll send you a return email...

rbeaton · January 25, 2003 8:11AM

<< <i>dgf,
rbeaton
i am sure you saw the 77 palmer from dsl.
>>

That's not a 77, it's a 76, and yes, I saw it. I probably won't get it, because I won't pay high prices for 10's, because generally they aren't any nicer than my 9's.

Robert

rbeaton · January 28, 2003 12:17AM

I was just looking at the population of the 76 Palmer PSA-10, and it is at 6 (it was 0 not too long ago). They all came from the same submission. Card from 90109257 -> 90109304 (48 cards) were all 1976 Palmers, and 6 of these got 10's, the rest were mostly 9's with a few token 8's.

Robert

Basilone · January 28, 2003 12:37AM

FYI.

The 1956 Topps 49'ers Team Card PSA 10 that Braves72078 spoke about is in Mint State's advertisement in the current (Feb 02) SMR for $799.00. It sold on eBay for $647.00 plus shipping.

JOhn

Kid4hof03 · January 28, 2003 5:16AM

Down Goes Frazier,
I love the 1977 NL All Star team photo, where can I get a copy of it?

Abe

dude · January 28, 2003 5:41AM

Abe,

If you want an electronic copy, just point your mouse to the photo and click your right mouse button and do a "Save As" to your hard disk.

1977 JIM PALMER PSA 10

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