Are dealers really that sophisticated?

Tonelover

I wrote an ebay seller today to see if he could send me a scan of a Barber Dime I wanted to know more about. The response I got was " I am a collector, not a dealer and am not able to do photos as I don't own a scanner." People also seem to say that quite a bit when describing their coins.

I never realized that being a dealer was required for showing numismatic knowledge and technical expertise. Actually I know a few dealers who would fail that test. What's the deal?

Clankeye

Well, I can understand the not having a scanner, or even an image. People still do sell that way on eBay. Heck, I have run a couple auctions without pictures, just because... I didn't have a camera or a scanner. Sad but true. BUT... anybody asking me a question about a coin I'm selling, they will get a detailed, honest description. I'm certainly not a dealer, but generally I like to flatter myself that I know something about a coin I'm selling.
I do believe when it comes to eBay though, there are a number of people selling things they have little or no knowlege of. And I imagine it can be a pain, when trying to get an answer. It certainly makes some things more of a crap-shoot if you even have the inclination to play the game.

ursabear

Tonelover,

This is a very difficult thing to address and get one's mind wrapped around...

I think I can answer by means of example: My mother is incredibly astute in matters of fabric and clothing creation. She understands fit, proportion, and the nature of how something might fit someone very well (or not). It never ceases to amaze me that she can look at a person and make a piece of clothing that not only fits - but it looks good on them.

However, she goes into brain lock if she deals with a computer or other computer-related technology. She still types in all caps, has difficulty saving things to disk from hyperlinks, and has a true tough time if the printer becomes mis-adjusted.

I think that lots of folks have trouble with technology, whether it is computers, operating systems, scanners, digicams, or web page tools.

To answer to the other part of your thoughts- you are right -a knowledgeable coin person (dealer or collector) should at least be able to describe things in detail that is meaningful to other coin persons. Coin knowledge does not appear to be directly proportional to whether or not one sells or buys coins. Many of the collector-only folks on this forum surpass my knowledge without any doubt or margin, even though I do sell coins on a part-time basis. However, I'm fairly technically astute, and have no issues with any of the technology that I need to sell my coins with moderate accuracy. I'm not saying that I can do proof pictures like Russ or Heritage, nor that my descriptions have as much meat as Teletrade -I'm just saying that I'm comfortable offering moderate technological artifacts to my coin dealings.

I didn't mean to ramble on so, but then again, the question is complex in nature.

Tonelover

Ursabear, great answer. I don't think it could be explained better. I'm not really trying to pick on the seller too harshly just because they don't have a scanner. Heck, I may be one of the last people on Earth that doesn't own a cell phone. I guess it's just the collector/dealer rationale which always gets to me. Why not just say, "I have gotten by fine and I don't have a need for one" or something like that. Oh well, no big deal.

stman

This person probably didn't want to give you a scan of the barber due to he could tell you were out of your league and should stick to standing liberty quarters. The barbers are ugly over rated and have ugly toning. Just my thoughts

ursabear

<< <i>I'm not really trying to pick on the seller too harshly just because they don't have a scanner. Heck, I may be one of the last people on Earth that doesn't own a cell phone. I guess it's just the collector/dealer rationale which always gets to me. Why not just say, "I have gotten by fine and I don't have a need for one" or something like that. Oh well, no big deal. >>



TL, I'm right there with you. I forgot to address the mentality aspect. As long as they have a good attitude about it and are willing to work with you, then their non-technological stuff is fine by me. The rationale of which you speak is annoying - you're right about that.

keets

hey jon

i find it peculiar that many eBay sellers are hard pressed to give the type of information/scan you spoke of but they seem to know what their coins are worth, at least ballpark. in one sense, some people just have a hard time expressing themselves so they shy away from a detailed description. others can't get the knack of the photo end of it.

the kind of thing that makes me nuts is when an auction item incorporates both of those elements. a familiar example for me is a 1956 proof franklin. they are regularly listed raw with either the reverse of the coin not pictured or if pictured, blurred or not close enough to see detail. then when i e-mail and ask about Type 1/Type 2 the seller is unaware of any difference. i've educated more than a few eBayer's like that!!! most of the sellers i encounter are at least willing to try to help me be more certain of what i'm bidding on. i haven't as yet had any say they can't help, but i have of course had the non-responses.

al h.

SarasotaFrank

I have a number of coins I have tried to scan or photograph for a critique by the members of this forum. I have not been able to get the scans or pix to come out to truly represent the coin.

I either need better equipment, or more practice.

shirohniichan

I used to think dealers were bright, knowledgable, well-mannered folks after reading books written by dealers like QDB. My first coin show opened my eyes, though. Some of them looked just like the guys at the gun shows who didn't know jack about guns. I got the impression they'd sell anything else if they could get more money for it, whether it was wholesaling sleds to shady used-car dealerships or hocking snake oil. I'd ask about coins in their display cases and they'd have no clue about anything except the grade and the price. Sometimes they didn't even know the grade ("XF, VF, whatever," was the response I received when commenting that the "XF" double eagle one handed me didn't look like it was any better than VF).

Dealers don't need to know everything. Dealers are usually generalists who know a little about many diffferent types, denominations, and grades of coins. Collectors tend to specialize and to know all the details about coins they're looking for. But when dealers or eBay sellers know nothing about the coins they're peddling, I am concerned. They should at least take a few moments to try to learn.

sinin1

Very frustrating as a buyer on top end stuff -

check the guys feedback has he sold quite a few coins before?

Send him an email counter reply saying something like - from you description I would be willing to bid XXX, but since I have been burned from sellers with overgrading their coins, I am longer willing to buy unpictured coins, unless the seller has a good return policy - what is your return policy?

shirohniichan

I give a 10-day return on raw coins and a 5-day return on slabbed. The reason I give a shorter return period on slabbed is to discourage people from only buying coins from me to flip for a profit. I don't bid on coins with no photos unless I know the dealer. Photos aren't a very good way to judge a coin's real appearance, so I don't bid on any coins that have no return policy.