What or who determines the finest known?

IrishMike

This is more of a rhetorical question than anything else. 42Proof Since this is the only 68 with a *, the dealer calls this the finest known. There are 7 others graded 68 by NGC and 100 graded 67, wouldn't one have to assume that all of these would have to be resubmitted for an upgrade for the * desigation to allow someone to lay claim to the finest known tag. Shouldn't it be called the lone 68 with a * designation. This is a new designation, so doubtful that everyone of the owners of the other 68's has sent their coin in for the designation.

The second part of the question is whose word makes this the finest known? Maybe the dealer that is trying to sell it for a 100+% mark up over other 68's. Anyway I have seen this claim before on coins and I just wondered what was the basis for this and who has the right to make that call.

WWBillman

R&I really puts a heavy premimum on those Star coins. To answer your question, I guess the seller does while he still has that window of opportunity prior to another being made.

IrishMike

Well I think you and I would agree on this Bill, no other slabbing company uses that designation, and its not meant to increase the grade of the coin, just make a statement that it is nice or has special appeal for the grade.

WWBillman

Mike,

We do agree on that and while coins with exceptional eye appeal deserve a premimum I think a lot of collectors do not fully understand the star designation and in some cases might be being lead astray.

stman

Myself, I do not agree with the term finest known. Maybe on the grade of an insert, a coin coin be graded the highest, but it also might not have great eye appeal. So maybe one could call it the finest known that meets the technical merits but it could have no eye appeal. For me eye appeal and technical grade combined is what matters most.

prooflike

I, and I alone, determine if your coin is the finest known. If you think you may have a finest known coin, mail it to me and I will give you the yea or nay decision. (Note: coins can not be returned)

Fairlaneman

A True Specialist in a Series IMO is the only person or person's that would be able to determine what a Finest Known coin is within that series. Not referring to just a average person that puts a set together but the reference is to a person that actively seeks out and examines all examples within his series.

The one person that comes to mind for myself would be TDN with the Trade Dollar Series. IMO he qualifies to say what is a Finest Known example within his Series.

For a Dealer to say this just because of a number on a slab. No Way, thats just Hype to lure the un-wary.

Ken

KoinKollector

Ken,
TDN indeed has the "finest known" set, but I believe there are quite a few people here who can determine a coin "finest known". Just to name a few off the top of my head: I edited out naming people because the list was to long . There are alot of people

stujoe

Finest known? I have to assume it looks better in person...

roadrunner

I concur with Fairlaneman. You really have to be a specialist and stay current with your series constantly checking auctions and inventories for new specimens. Anyone who is using the pops w/o other research is only fooling himself.....and the buyer. A tremendous amount of effort is needed to know what is lurking in nearly every major specialized collection. Without lots of contacts and networking, you couldn't possibly cover all the bases. There are still many top collections to be gone through that have never been part of any census. The odds of that PF68* specimen being THE finest known are probably near zero. There is almost undoubtedly a better one. And maybe many better that may not be slabbed for 10-20 years.

roadrunner

zep

Sometimes "finest graded" correlates with "finest known" in the older series prior to 1900. I think it would be dangerous to extend this terminology to most 20th century coins since amazing examples are still turning up.

lincolnSence

I think to be fair tie for finest graded should be used as the * only is used to designate eye appeal in this case.

coinguy1

Mike,

This might not be a direct answer to your question but personally, I think that claims of finest known are way overblown and over used. Let's face it, in order to truly, fairly and accurately determine the finest known, all of the potential candidates would need to be gathered together and compared/judged by qualified experts. How often has that been done before sellers make their finest known claims? Rarely, at best.

Additionally, it is well known by many, that sometimes a coin graded 67 is better than its 68 counterpart. That makes finest known claims even more questionable. Why not just say "highest graded"? That would be more accurate and truthful. By the way, if you see us doing what I am complaining about here, please let me know.

Finally, while I am not opposed to the concept of NGC's * designation, in some cases, I think it becomes redundant overkill. A PR68 coin has great eye appeal so it gets a star? Shouldn't a PR68 coin, by the very nature of the stratospheric grade assigned to it have great eye appeal? If not, perhaps it is overgraded in the first place. I feel the same way about sellers who, in an attempt to get more money for their coins, say such things as "but this is a nice 67 (or 68 or whatever super high grade is being offered)". My response is usually "I thought a 67 is supposed to be nice"! Ok, I will step down from my soapbox now.

Fairlaneman

KK:

I was just using TDN as a example for his Speciality. For sure I believe a Few people that frequent these forumns also qualify within thier given speciality.

The point I was trying to make is a Dealer that sees a Few should not use the Hype or a collector like myself that does not travel the country seeking examples does not qualify to name Finest Known coins.

Ken

IrishMike

Mark, wasn't a soap box you were on, my thoughts exactly.

Fairlaneman

Hey Mark:

How about Sellers that say "In fact We thought this Coin could easily Grade 67FB". Hmmm.... better check your Web Site. I do constantly.

Ken

stman

Coinguy1, I think you said what I was trying to say I'm just not good at it through a keyboard. So from now on if I agree with you I'll just say what coinguy1 said.

coinguy1

Ken,

We are guilty of that sometimes. But, I would bet that if you check our decriptions against those of our competitors, you will see far less of that and the use of "PQ" from us than you do most, if not all of them.

Fairlaneman

Mark:

You made the Statement. As I have found out lately You must Live with your Statements on these and other Forumns.

Ken

DMWJR

Since "finest" is a subjective term and collectors should maximize their own enjoyment, maybe the phrase should be "finest known . . . to me".

I can probably say that I have seen the "finest-known-group-of-three-complete-Indian-Head-Cent-sets" there are. Will anyone see that many together in one place again? I would think not. Probably never seen before either. As for individual "finest knowns" I couldn't say.

oreville

Would it be better simply to say none graded higher by NGC?

dorkkarl

doug is 100% correct. claiming a coin is universally accepted as "finest known" is usually silly. but to say it's the finest known to YOU makes sense. also, saying a coin has the highest slabed grade also makes sense.

there might be some exceptions. the "finest known" 1802 half-dime is au-50, & the rest of the population drops off considerably after that, being that a majority of the others are butt-ugly-due-to-damage. such a coin might universally qualify as the "finest known", except for those individuals that just LOVE coins w/ gouges, etc.

K S