Coin Dr,
RegistryCoin
Posts: 5,117 ✭✭✭✭
Thank you for posting here. I hope you are given an open mic.
0
RegistryCoin
Posts: 5,117 ✭✭✭✭
Comments
If it IS a flame war,its been pretty civil thus far.
Camelot
To be honest, almost all coins have been played with through the years. My silver Christmas ornaments tarnish after only 8-15 years and to think a silver coins remains blast white after 150 years is well...
Dan
K S
if you put coins in an ARTIFICIAL environment, such as wayte-raymond holders, whitman albums, coin doctor's magic slop, or the ammonium-phosphate atmosphere of jupiter, THEN they might get those bizarre colors. ACCEPT THAT FACT!
if you do decide to accept that fact, & you realize that gee, you know what??? an a-t coin just MIGHT make it into a slab, hmmmm??? then maybe you'll come to rely on your own opinion of what you like, & buy the a-t'd coins for what they are - TO YOU.
the reason an a-t'd coin gets into a slab - is because someone at the plastic company LIKES it.
K S
K S
Your above statements are completely untrue and I'm surprised you said that.
Dragon
Gee, I would have said the opposite. It seemed like every decent 19th century coin 20 years ago was toned and the doctors were still far and few between. There were very few (IMO) white dipped gem blazers in 19th century classics. Dipped coins stood out like sore thumbs and commanding less money as a rule. In many cases being white was like a bell tolling that the coin was probably cleaned. And they often were. I didn't get my preference for toned coins from David Hall.
market offered in the 70's and 80's. Most of the nice silver type was toned hence you equated "nice=toned."
roadrunner
My experience has been that more and more of the older coins have been dipped rather than toned during the past several years. Look at the well known old-time colections that appear on the market - very few "white " coins in them. And, they are probably fairly representative of the natural distribution of toned vs. untoned coins. Now, think about what it would look like if a number of more recently assembled collections came to market - lots more "white."
If you want to learn, go to the ANA Seminars (or any club seminar), read books, ask dealers, or look at auction lots (in person) you'll start to see the differences. If you think having one of these ego freaks spouting off here is really going to teach you anything, your wrong! Its experience that will teach you. And to really know, YOU NEED TO SEE A LOT OF COINS. Heck, even good long time numismatists get fooled on additve color.
It enrages me how this Coin Dr. comes on here and calls people basically idiots for whatever. I'm sure the guy has some talent-but in my book, ANYONE WHO ALTERS A COINS SURFACE BY ADDING COLOR is a rat and a crook to the hobby! And don't start telling me NCS does that stuff-they don't.
Having this guy explain you what he does only encourages him to be bolder. Its like asking the neighborhood cat burgler to tell you how he gets a way with his crimes! Sure, you want to know how to protect yourselves from him, but don't you want to stop him?
Because of guys like this Coin Dr. PCGS/NGC will tend to grade everyones coins more skittish (bodybags at the least hint of AT). Plus, I've seen MANY great coins ruined by them. They lie when they claim they're stuff doesn't turn. Once they mess with a coin and get it through the service, you think they care? Do you think they offer buy-backs? NO! They just deny that they did it!
I have my flame retardent suit on for the feedbacks! But I do acknowledge, we live in a free society where everyone has a right to speak-even people who ruin coins for a living.
Laura Sperber
lsperbr1@hotmail.com
JUST SAY NO TO WANNABES! They lurk and prey on unwitting collectors in chatrooms!
I fully agree with your statements, but as a collector, you have to admit that being able to talk to someone who does this and gets away with it is a chance not only to expose him, but to get to the bottom of some of the questions we all have about AT coins. If it were a matter of withholding information for the problem to go away then we'd already be in trouble by way of all the stuff that's posted in the internet, not to mention of the material that has already been commited to print. As you know, the Coin Collector's Survival Manual has an extensive interview with one of these yaahoos. Yes - agree with you entirely, get to look at as much material as you can - in person, but sometimes that's next to impossible for some of us - especially if we don't have someone to guide us - so I guess what I'm saying is that the point-counterpoint that we tend to have here on this subject I think is beneficial. Now, when the guy turns into a jerk - well - that's a whole different topic
Frank
Most of them are liars, losers, cheats, and frauds, and the problem of altered coins is out there for sure, but not nearly to the extent that so many individuals think, especially the very few incredibly toned pieces the sell for sky high premiums when available.
Dragon
Laura Sperber
lsperber1@hotmail.com
JUST SAY NO TO WANNABES! They lurk and prey on unwitting collectors in chatrooms!
<< <i>Your above statements are completely untrue and I'm surprised you said that. >>
Dragon,
I don't know why you'd be surprised. Karl takes the opposite position on every issue. Right, wrong or indifferent; doesn't matter to him. He has fun distributing sh!t.
Russ, NCNE
I have lots of silver jewelry from years past....some from my grandma, must be at least 40-50+ years old. All of my silver jewelry just gets tarnished grey. No "monster" colors. Why are silver coins different?
Probably because of where it's kept and how it's handled - your jewelry gets lots of exposure to skin, is probably regularly cleaned and polished. That will impart a totally different surface effect as opposed to a coin which is either sitting in a coin bag, an album, or a coin case.
Frank
all the heavy hitters raise the issue of credibility and hurting the hobby. yet back several months ago on a related thread the issue of a coins history was raised over and over only to be beaten back as nonesense when it really is the only sure way to prove the AT or genuine question. i thought the recent roanoke commemerative was a superb example of that. the history of that coin states without a doubt that the color is genuine.
artificial toning seems to be a very personal issue for some that is determined by intent. when the old tone inducing holders were used it was natural. now when they are sought for the explicit purpose of doing the same thing and the chemical reaction they produce is seen in a different light will it be AT or genuine? with all the money available from a stunningly toned coin, all the known "genuine" methods of toning are being ressurected after they were avoided for what they did to a coins surface. to confusing. white or toned don't rule the day, money does. it just depends which of the two "colors" are in vogue.
al h.
This thread ,like very similar ones in the past,are ALWAYS a good read,no matter which side of the issue your on.
Most everyone here does have an opinion on the subject of color on coins.So its fasinating to get insight from all sides.
<< <i>Karl takes the opposite position on every issue. Right, wrong or indifferent; doesn't matter to him >>
russ, i totally disagree w/ you!
but i guess you already knew that.....
K S
<< <i>My experience has been that more and more of the older coins have been dipped rather than toned during the past several years. >>
I remember several discussions on this very subject on these forums quite a while back. I don't think that there is a quick easy answer to this topic. The only thing that I can add to this subject, is to note that this is all the more reason for a collector to learn as much as he/she can about their hobby. The best judge of a coin's value will always be yourself. One should always know what one is getting into.