mylar flips vs. PVC

coindaughter

AAAARGH! I went to a local coin shop and specifically asked for mylar flips. When he counted them out, I again asked, are these mylar? Now, I'm getting my coins ready to send to ANACS and I notice an odor....I remember someone saying that PVC has an odor. Does mylar???

If these *are* pvc, can I use them to send in for grading?

EVillageProwler

CD,

I recently bought a bunch of supplies, including PVC-free flips, from the following:

KOINTAINER

I actually got my stuff, and I was very happy. They even gave me more than I asked for...

EVP

coppercoins

There are two ways I know of testing flips for PVC.

1. 99.9% of the time, if your flips are hard enough to "snap" when you flip the corner, are rigid, and make a white crease when you fold them, they are PVC free. If they are soft, bend easily, and smell odd, they have PVC.

2. PVC burns with a green flame. I once read a method of testing them with an acetalene torch. Use a cork, a bit of coat hanger (without paint) and a torch. Goggles are optional. Use the cork as a handle on one end of a straightened piece of coat hanger. Light the torch, get the non-hendle end fo the coat hanger hot, touch it to a cut piece of flip so it'll stick to the hanger, then hold the cut piece in the flame of the torch. If the resulting flame is green, you have PVC.

coindaughter

Drat...I think they are PVC....I used your first test, coppercoins...I'm not in the mood to get out the blowtorch just now....

Can I still use them for sending coins in for grading? I wanted to take advantage of ANACS 9-9-9 dollar special. I have to mail them tomorrow, though. (I'm the champion of procrastination)

Thanks for the source, EVP...I'll go there to order some and return the rest of the ones I got today.

Placid

Pcv flips smell like a shower curtain.

leothelyon

Pcv flips smell like a shower curtain.

YEA! That's it! For years that smell had me baffled. Everytime I would come across
that smell, I just couldn't quite put my finger on it. I used to think it smelled something like petroleum.
Thank you Placid, another old mystery of my life is solved.

Those things need to be outlawed but every major coin show, there's always someone
still pushing that product.

coppercoins,
I saw that too but use a copper wire. I guess anything will work after the impurities are
burnt redhot.

A shower curtain?! I think I still have one of thise flips around here somewhere. I wonder if my wife can guess what it smell like.

Leo

ursabear

Coindaughter,

I just wanted to add my own two FEs to this. The GOOD PVC-free flips are "crunchy when you handle or bend them. The SaFlips I use are the best by the farthest amount. Only a little more each, and they don't haze or influence your coins on the way to the grading company. I've had lots of wonderful success with SaFlips brand (no, I'm not a paid endorser, just someone who got a CAM or two before I knew that the other kind of flips I was using were bad stuff.

The PVC shower curtain thing is true. It reminds me of the pool floats that I inflate every year for the Bear family. I know PVC won't hurt for short periods of time, but add heat (like the back of a freight truck) or airborne pollutants, and they do nasty things to metal.

Hope this helps...

coindaughter

Well, I'm going to have to use them to send them in to get graded. I hope they are OK for the few days it will take.

Placid

They should be if you choose faster than economy service.

relayer

PCGS has warned against using them for submissions. Guess it just depends on how long it sits there.

Viper

I have PVC flips that I use except I have small polyethylene bags that I put the coin in first , then insert it into the flip for submission.

I'm not a chemist so I do not know if there is any PVC in Polyethylene.

dorkkarl

pvc flips are safe enough for very short-term storage. to be sure of the infamous "shower-curtain" smell, stretch 1 of the flips out as hard as you can. that will release the offensive odor. mylar has no such odor.

K S

coindaughter

I just spoke to someone at ANACS who said that it will be OK for the short time it takes to send them in for submission.

Whew!

Thanks for all the help and info!

Steve27

Viper,

Your polyethylene bags are safe, i.e. they don't contain any polyvinyl chloride (PVC). Although it is my understanding that the PVC itself is not to blame but the softener used to make it pliable.

sinin1

I sent in about 60 coins to ANACS over the past year in 5 shipments - the last shipment returned with 2 coins not slabbed because of PVC RESIDUE -> Coin was not encapsulated in the ANACS Cache holder due to PVC residue or other surface contaminants. Often these residues may be safely removed from a coin with various neutral solvents. If you are not completely familiar with the removal process, please consult with an expert before using any solvent, as permanent damage to your coin could result.

I smelled the flip and yes, new shower curtain smell. I looked at the coins and GOOD, no green attacks.

I asked a local dealer how to remove the contamination -> he said dip in Ammonia -> I got the stuff but didn't do -> threads here said soak in acetone -> got some from local hardware store by the paint removal stuff -> did it and seem coin.

I went back to my flips that I bought on ebay - as vinyl flips - I asked the seller if these vinyl flips contain PolyVinyl Chloride -> he said yes but many people prefer them because they are softer.

I still do not know if the couple weeks the coin was in the flip last summer to the grading service caused the damage, or if the damage occurred before I sent them in.

supercoin

coindaughter, if you're sending in proofs, particularly copper-nickel proofs, I wouldn't risk it even for a short time. They are very susceptible to hazing.

I use E&T Kointainer 2.5" SAFLIP brand flips exclusively. Before that I had various problems, even when using poly bags inside the flips.

DHeath

The polybags are awful too. I stored a few odd coins I was accumulating for submission in poly bags for a few weeks, and they hazed and discolored terribly. Brittle flips with no polybag are really the answer.

Viper

Steve27, What you stated about the PVC not being the culprit but the softner is interesting. And although I'm not a chemist, I do have a few recolections from college materials courses from a while ago.

The additive that makes most plastics pliable is a plasticiser or a lubricant that allows the polymer chains to slide around each other and stretch without breaking. This plasticiser is what migrates out of a dashboard and other interior car components and attaches itself on your winshield in the form of a smokey haze. For those of you old enough to remember the cracked dashboards and vinyl seats that were fairly common. Once to much lubricant is lost the component becomes brittle and cracks. My wife is driving a 3 month old vehicle and the windows already look like she is a chain smoker. (she's a non-smoker)

So it would make sense that poly bags would release some of the same substance. The brittle mylar flips either have very little or no plasticiser at all.