Bad Trader, thief, liar...Paragon..his name is Vaden T. H. Murray

jeffo81

PLEASE LET ME KNOW IF ANYONE HAS HEARD FROM HIM !!!!!!

This guy owed me cards from about 5 months ago.

He Came back about a month ago and said he had some "tough times"..his girlfriend dumped him, blah, blah, blah.

He said if I did not say anything about our last trade he would make it up to me and send me cards... he is full of sh$t...he reads my e-mails (does not respond) about getting me some cards and makes lame excuse after lame excuse as to why I have nothing. Trying to find the exact card we were going to trade, Going to church and busy, tough times with my ex, seeing my shrink....blah, blah, blah.

don't believe him.......he has read about 5 of my e-mails in the last two weeks and won't respond!

his name is Vaden T. H. Murray..I think he is from Michigan.....

beware...he comes on everyday but does not post...I think he is sending PM/s

THIS IS THE EMAIL HE SENT TO ME OVER A MONTH AGO.....I STILL HAVE NOTHING BUT EMPTY PROMISES.

Date Posted: Sep/19/2002 5:29 PM
Mr. Oranellas:

You may remember me as the guy who you traded 3 g/u for a Manny Ramirez from. This was several months ago; I had a nervous breakdown, and was assured by my girlfriend (at the time) that she had taken care of both this issue and a couple of papers (tuition grant, a phone bill) that I had forgotten when I went to stay with a friend.

I received a few nasty emails from you, (which turned out to be deservedly so) but figured you were just one more guy trying to pile on to my situation and take advantage. Nic said she sent you the Ramirez AND a money order that was supposed to go to a website, and I figured the chances that BOTH had gotten lost in the mail were so low that the situation was well-taken care of. I had no interest in sports cards, just getting my life back on track, and although I peruse CU occasionally, was too turned off by the experience to post/trade again.

That all changed last week. Without getting into the personal details of the situation, suffice to say that I received a *large* stack of mail in a cardboard box – bills, correspondence, etc. – from months ago, and realize that although the letters to you were not among them, that there’s a good chance that my card AND money order were never sent out.

I feel bad that I assumed otherwise, and have searched for a card (or better one) to take its place to try and make amends with you. I understand that you probably will never want to deal with me again, and I don’t blame you. I would, however, like to return on a limited basis to trading and hope that after our situation is resolved that you’ll find it in your heart to not discourage others from dealing with me if I send first.

In particular, there is an item listed by PSASports that I would like for my new girlfriend. She is very religious, and has gotten me into church, and I would really like to trade for the rosary that he mentioned a few days ago. You are free to mention our problem to him if you would like, but as I said, I humbly request that you not discourage him from trading it to me, as it would make the perfect gift for her.

Once again, I wholeheartedly apologize for our problem. Please let me know how I can make this right so that there can be one less blemish on my personal record.

Sincerely,

Vaden T. H. Murray
(xan/Paragon on CU)

Paragon

The majority of that is accurate. I had issues, ones that didn't need to be dregged up over a $40 card deal, but issues that have been dealt with, and now publicized. Whose business but mine is it whether I go to counseling, or if I have been burned romantically? You want to call me a slow sender, or anything else, that's fine, but the rest of my life is not meant to be an open book because of 3 common g/u that book around $15 total right now. I donated about $4900 worth of sports cards during my rehab, several times that amount.

My therapist (mock if you want) suggested that I make amends with EVERYONE I've had problems with, and I've made amends with family, friends, co-workers, and everyone else except this board because I can't find one Manny Ramirez autograph card. So you feel the need to expose my life to the world. Well guess what, that's YOUR cross to bear, because I've made my mistakes, yes my life was sinful and confusing earlier, and if it makes you feel better to let the world know my life sucked, here ya go.

Vaden T. H. Murray

EHTHOCKEY09

<< <i>The majority of that is accurate. I had issues, ones that didn't need to be dregged up over a $40 card deal, but issues that have been dealt with, and now publicized. Whose business but mine is it whether I go to counseling, or if I have been burned romantically? You want to call me a slow sender, or anything else, that's fine, but the rest of my life is not meant to be an open book because of 3 common g/u that book around $15 total right now. I donated about $4900 worth of sports cards during my rehab, several times that amount.

My therapist (mock if you want) suggested that I make amends with EVERYONE I've had problems with, and I've made amends with family, friends, co-workers, and everyone else except this board because I can't find one Manny Ramirez autograph card. So you feel the need to expose my life to the world. Well guess what, that's YOUR cross to bear, because I've made my mistakes, yes my life was sinful and confusing earlier, and if it makes you feel better to let the world know my life sucked, here ya go.

Vaden T. H. Murray >>




So in other words you ripped him off, and are admitting it now?

Paragon

For all those who must know, the details of my life (thoughtfully exposed to the world) are entirely accurate. My therapist wanted me to make amends with everyone in my life, so I did. Family, friends, near and far. I didn't even have to come BACK to this site, but I remembered there was someone who I hadn't completed a deal with, MONTHS ago, and I needed to make amends there as well. Ever since that day I have been looking for the Manny Ramirez autograph I agreed to trade, on ebay, card shops, yahoo auctions, etc. It has not arisen, but I assured Mr. Oranellas that when I found it, it would be his.

And as you should have read earlier, according to my girlfriend of the time, she told me she had sent out not just my Ramirez card, AND a money order that was supposed to go to one of my utility bills to Mr. Oranellas. How the heck was I supposed to figure out she was gonna go psycho on me and hold about 80% of my mail until I received a box of bills, items, etc. from her mom because she felt bad that her daughter was screwing up my life so bad. What, exactly, would you like, to speak with my therapist? My ex's mom? If that's what it takes to make you feel better, I will send ONE of those phone numbers to a trusted member of this board, who I know won't abuse it.

jeffo81

EXPLAIN TO EVERYONE WHY YOU WOULD NOT RESPOND TO MY EMAILS TO YOUR PERSONAL EMAIL AND PM'S TO YOU REQUESTING ANY CARDS YOU WOULD LIKE TO SEND TO GET THIS MESS OVER WITH.

DONT YOU DARE TRY TO BLAME ANYONE BUT YOURSELF....I HAVE WAITED 6 MONTHS AND STILL HAVE NOTHING....EXPLAIN THAT~~~

OVER ONE MONTH SINCE YOU CAME BACK TO THE BOARD ASKING ME NOT TO "HURT YOUR REP", WELL IF YOU CANT SEND ME ANY CARDS TO MAKE UP FOR IT IN ONE MONTH (PLUS 5 MONTHS AGO WHEN WE MADE THE TRADE) THEN YOU ARE A THIEF IN MY BOOK.

HOW DARE YOU TELL ME WHEN I RECIEVE MY CARDS AND BY YOUR TERMS!!!! THAT IS A BUNCH OF CR@P AND I AM SICK OF IT.

I TOLD YOU TO JUST SEND ANYTHING TO MAKE UP FOR IT AND YOU DID NOT!!!!!!!!! EXPLAIN THAT!!!!!!!!

Paragon

I explained to you before that I can NOT, repeat, *NOT* send anything but the Ramirez in order to complete this. Even if you said "just give me a Mark Eichhorn common and we'll call it even", I can't DO that. Why is that so hard to understand? The only way for me to properly atone for everything is to do EXACTLY what I *AGREED* to, heck, I even wrote a 8 page essay for a class that I signed up for a YEAR ago, that I'm not going to get any credit for, just to make things even. I told the professor I'd do it, and it might be late, but it's done. THEN I can get on with the shambles I'm calling a 'life' these days.

jeffo81

YOU NEVER SAID IT WOULD BE THAT EXACT MANNY, THAT WAS WHAT WAS TAKING YOU SO LONG....IF THAT IS WHAT YOUR STORY IS THEN WHY DID YOU IGNORE AT LEAST 5 EMAILS...I KNOW YOU READ THEM BECAUSE YOU WERE COMING INTO COLLECTORS UNIVERSE AND NOT RESPONDING!

AFTER OWING ME CARDS FOR 6 MONTHS, YOU DONT TELL ME WHAT YOU ARE GOING TO SEND ME! HECK, IT COULD BE 2 YEARS BEFORE YOU FIND THAT CARD IF THAT IS THE TRUTH

THE SIMPLE TRUTH OF THE MATTER WAS I SENT YOU MANY, MANY EMAILS ASKING FOR ANYTHING JUST SO WE COULD GET THIS MESS OVER WITH.....YOU WERE READING THE EMAILS AND NOT EVEN RESPONDING TO ME!!!!!!!!!

IN MY BOOK THAT IS SOMEONE WHO IS AVOIDING THE ISSUE AND SCREWING WITH ME

Paragon

Look, Mr. Oranellas, I'm sorry, but I wish you could live just ONE day in my shoes from the last few months. I have done EXACTLY what has been suggested to me in order to get my life straight, I came BACK here SPECIFICALLY to make things right with some person from months ago who lives across the country, and I'm sorry that things have come to this and understand why you'd be frustrated, but the old Paragon wouldn't have given a darn and not came back. I DID come back, but you HAVE to understand that in order for me to continue progressing, I have to live up to everything I've said EXACTLY. I even offered $50 cash to anyone at the card store here who could find me a Ramirez autograph, and no one bit on the offer.

jeffo81

I am suggesting to you....AS THE PERSON YOU OWE THE CARDS TO, that you send me ANYTHING.


... You don't owe "whoever is giving you this advice" anything so why do you keep bringing them up and putting the blame on them as to why you can't send me cards ???????????????????????? they have nothing to do with this transaction...it's between you and I......I have come up with a simple solution for which you keep making excuses.

My advice, which is free by the way.....is to take responsability for your past actions and send me something so we can move on. Don't look for my Manny autograph...send me anything so we can move on.

IT IS VERY SIMPLE, WHY DONT YOU UNDERSTAND ????

TAKE REPSONSABILITY FOR YOUR ACTIONS AND SEND ME ANYTHING...6 MONTHS IS WAY TO LONG!!!!!!!!!

co1lector

2 things:

I had no problem with Paragon when I dealt with him. He DID say he was going to buy some of my other cards, but never replied to any PM's (which was fine).

Paragon, if the other side AGREES to accept something as a replacement, there's no burden on you to send him something you both agree upon. If you can't agree on a replacement card, then send the GU back. If you can't do that either, send him cash. Just get the deal done with so you're both happy.

BASEBALLFAN80

Paragon

i sent you a PM, please reply thanks

chris

jeffo81

still no cards from this fraud...I am going to keep topping this until I recieve replacement cards from him.

He has time to come in here everyday but does not have time to replace cards from a trade that was 6 months ago that he never fullfilled.

What ever story he tells you he is full of sh@t....

Thanks
Jefferson

baird34

Paragon... if u cant give him anything but the manny auto then here you go...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1582455977

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1579632347

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1580983327

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=733316141

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1582524747


now i dont know what is goin on in your personal life, actually i dont really care... all i know is that its not that difficult to find another manny ramirez auto card out there.

ps. thanks for getting back to me and at least letting me know you were not gonna buy those cards. it was nice of me holding them for you for about 2 weeks where I could have gotten sold them to someone else.

jeffo81

Thanks baird34 for the reference points for Paragon to find a Manny for me!!!

He said he has been looking everywhere including e-bay!! lol...I highly doubt that!

Quiksilver77

prolly none of my business, but even if you have "problems", and just cause youre going through a "hard time" in life, doesnt mean you can rip people off...you can find 5 minutes to send jeffo's cards out and you know it...just send him his stuff, its the right thing to do.

jeffo81

oh by the way...the EXACT card I was supposed to get is in auction Item # 733316141 ... the ud authentix auto ending in a few days........I will let you know how it goes and if he is true to his word!!!!!!!!!!!

Remster

Thanks for the warning Jeffo...another one to avoid

baird34

glad i could help out.

i hope everything works out for ya