SMS or not?

sinin1

How can grading services tell if a coin came from a special mint set or from a bankroll?

BlueCole

I think When you send it in still in the packaging that tells them--i'm not sure if San Fran made regular strikes that year. Ask Russ, he'll know.

B.

nwcs

Mostly from the luster. Is it proof like or is it frosty? Not the only measure, but generally the definitive one.

Russ

Absent the original packaging, some SMS coins are so similar to business strikes, it's nearly impossible to tell the difference. Even PCGS has problems, as evidenced by the fact that there are numerous SMS coins in PCGS slabs that are not designated as such.

If the SMS is an early strike with the strong prooflike mirrors, it's pretty easy to tell the difference. But, a later weakly struck coin can look amazingly similar to a strongly struck early strike business strike.

On other words, it's tough sometimes.

Russ, NCNE

cladking

San Fransisco did strike quarters (and cents, nickels) during the SMS years. There is a virtual
certainty that retired SMS dies were used for regular production coins. There were and are
large numbers of these coins in circulation that look a lot like SMS coins. It seems pretty unlikely
that broken SMS sets could account for all of these.

Some SMS coins do not look like SMS coins.

sinin1

I guess I'm curious on the 1965-1967 years - I sold a slabbed coin on ebay and called it a business strike and the winner is sending it back to me because the holder says SMS - I told him I thought coins were either business strikes or proof and he said no - SMS coins are "essentially proof" so a MS69 SMS is worth less than a MS69.

Russ

<< <i>SMS coins are "essentially proof" so a MS69 SMS is worth less than a MS69. >>



The SMS is a "tweener" coin. There were no proofs struck from 1965 to 1967, only SMS and business strikes. The SMS coins aren't quite a proof and aren't quite a business strike. But, since they were the replacement for proofs, they generally tend to be better struck and nicer than the regular production.

He is correct that, at least in most cases, a business strike of the same grade will be worth more than the SMS coin. The notable exception would be the 1964 SMS coins since they are exceedingly rare.

Russ, NCNE

DCAMFranklin

They can't always tell the difference. They have made many errors that have been corrected over time.

Steve27

He's right the "MS69 SMS is worth less than a MS69." Additionally, there are a lot of unhappy people because their high grade non-SMS pieces have been designated as SMS by various grading services.

BlueCole

thanks, guys. It's neat to realize exactly how much i have left to learn.

B.

keets

there probably is no hard and fast rule of thumb way to distinguish between SMS and RBS coins. i had to check rick t.'s book to see if the SMS were handled differently and he says no. from what i see, bag marks are very limited but i guess they still occurred. die polish lines are much less prevelant, but since i've seen proofs with them i guess that wouldn't be helpful. the rims and lettering should be struck higher, but late die stage coins wouldn't pass that test. no wonder the major services still miss the boat occasionally!!!!!!

absent the original packaging i guess there is no way to be sure, and even then a coin could be switched and resealed. but why substitute a business strike coin for SMS?? i would assume the majority of error is business strikes being mislabeled. right now i have a 1965 that i washed and the mirrors look really good so i'm tempted to think it's SMS though it has a small rim mark in one of the fields so i think it may be RBS. i'm right of course, cause it's one or the other!! the best and surest test i know is that if it's got thick frosty devices it's an early strike SMS.

al h.

DCAMFranklin

sinin1-
I would be interested in your SMS MS-69 coin. What is it you have?

sinin1

I don't have it (it is in the mail coming back to me) it is an ICG 1966 dime - the guy says ICG has so many SMS MS69's they aren't worth much more than ten bucks and he has tons of them - I think I'll offer him $12 a pop for his tons and see what he says then - I thought he got it cheap anyway $20.50 with shipping. - I still don't know what it would do with NGC or PCGS - 67? 68? 69? - Everybody has been saying that ICG is way too loose with newer stuff - I don't know nor do I know how to find out.