So...How do you send in a coin for guarantee review at PCGS.
dpoole
Posts: 5,940 ✭✭✭✭✭
I have a relatively expensive red Lincoln that has developed some UGLY splotching toning in the slab.
I though others here might be interested too: how does one go about submitting it with PCGS for the guarantee review?
Thanks!
I though others here might be interested too: how does one go about submitting it with PCGS for the guarantee review?
Thanks!
0
Comments
Do they cover the cost of S/H/I? I mean it it is their fault the coins are damaged shouldn't they recoup the loss?
Ray
However, I wouldn't open the conversation with asking him to pay for postage.
What, you mean vinegar don't catch flies???
We'll use our hands and hearts and if we must we'll use our heads.
<< <i>When I called customer service about sending in a coin they told me I had to have a dealer send it in unless I was "a payin' club member" !!!!!!! >>
Here is a twist that I have been hearing from a couple of old-time local dealers. They say that grade is determined not by the look of the coin but rather by the amount of coins you send in a month! For instance, a Monroe that should grade 65 will come back as 64 if I send it in, but it will come back as 65 (worth $2k more) if someone that frequently submits sends it in. Do you think that is true??
Wondercoin.
I have purchased a Monroe in ms64 with a 7 day return policy but have not received it yet. I will see if it has a chance at upgrade when I get it and I will bring it to the dealers for their opinions. I wouldn't mind taking a chance on upgrading it if they think it stands a good chance based on the merits of the coin. Both said I don't stand a chance at an upgrade even if the coin deserves it because I don't submit at least 50 coins a month. They say the grading company looks at pop count first, then quantity of submissions before giving the coin a grade.
Also keep in mind that someone submitting hundreds of coins to PCGS is likely to get pretty good at it compared to someone who just submits a few. And of course a big submitter, by sheer volume, is more likely to get a few big winners. And the big winners are what gets talked about.
I have not seen evidence of that kind of favoritism, other than I think that bulk submissions of common coins, where a minimum grade is specified, tend to be more liberally graded. It's probably easier to just say "that won't look out of place in a MSxx holder, call it good". But I haven't done any scientific experiment, and that doesn't apply to your situation in any case.
Keep in mind that whenever someone has a predisposed idea they want to believe, and a random set of data, they can always find plenty of "evidence" to support their theory.
way back in the day, when i was into plastics, i tried only 1 time to get $$ back on a coin. it was an 1855 seated half graded xf-45 that turned from gray-ish to green while in the holder. i thought there was mold growing on it! i actually presented the coin to the company representative IN PERSON, & was told that there was nothing wrong w/ the coin. they suggested that if i really had a concern, i should send it in for a re-evaluation. i did so, & received the coin back w/ no change in opinion. (i won't mention the co. to avoid inflammatory responses, but it was 1 of the "top" 2). i then called them back for an explanation, which was that their in-house expert condescendingly explained how such unusual colors on such an old coin were not grounds for thinking there was a problem. needless to say, i did not like their opinion.
THAT SAID, i will stand up right now that except for that one instance out of hundreds, i have never personally had any other coin change colors in any holder. so all in all, i'd say that's a danged good track record. yes, that's right, i am saying right now that in my experience, the plastic companies have an outstanding track record for not encapsulating coins that will change color. but it can happen.
K S
you sure are stuck on that 50% rant. the guarantee is effectively to protect you against loss. please explain how you would be losing value if a coin upgrades under the policy. you.ve lost me on this one.
al h.
for the example, we'll use the following suppositions:
(1) i bought a raw 1884-S morgan dollar that a dealer graded MS-62
(2) the cost was $8000
(3) trends for the coin are as follows: MS-61 = $6000, MS-62 = $8000, MS-63 = $22,000
(4) i send it to pcgs & they grade it ms-62 the first time i send it in. i am not singling out pcgs, since the other slabbing companies have the same "guarantee", but this is their forum after all, & the impression i get is that they are viewed as the most "conservative" (as if that's a good thing).
example 1: coin was overgraded
in this scenario, i send the coin to pcgs & it is returned as ms-62. great! next year, i send it back for re-evaluation, & they downgrade it to ms-61. oops - it was overgraded by a point. wonderful! now they have to pay me $2000, the difference between ms-62 & ms-61 money. they protected me from an overgraded coin. i think everyone understands this example very well, & it is what their guarantee covers.
example 2: coin was undergraded
here, i send the coin to pcgs, & it is returned as ms-62. great! i sell the coin to Keets Koins, owned by Mr. Keets, for $8000, the ms-62 value. next year, Mr. Keets cracks the coin out & sends it back for re-grading. it comes back as ms-63! wonderful! now, Mr. Keets sells the coin for $22,000, netting a profit of $14,000! so all is good & wonderful, right? WRONG. what has happened is that, I JUST GOT SCREWED to the tune of $14,000, because i sold the coin to Mr. Keets for MUCH LESS than it was truly worth, & it is because pcgs did not grade the coin properly the first time. (and, i am just SO SURE that Mr. Keets, being the kind and generous and loving soul that he is, is just going to drop a check in the mail to me in the amount of $13,980, the amount i lost minus the grading fee, right?)
that is why i say these "guarantees" cover only 50% of the grade, & undergrading coins is totally & completely as much a problem as overgraded coins.
also, this is not a new kick for me. i have brought this point up numerous times, but either it has been conveniently ignored, or nobody really cares about the potential for losing $14,000 on one coin simply because it was undergraded. you get screwed either way
i realize the example is extreme, but like i said, it holds just as true for a coin worth $100. note that the bottom line is that a plastic company will never guarantee to cover both sides of the grading equation, because that would require them to always be consistent graders, which is not possible. THAT is why it bothers me to see others claim how "consistent" this or that plastic company is. IF they are truly consistent, they would have no qualms about offering a 100% guarante, instead of only half of one.
K S
If The graders aren't supposed to know who sent the coins in, how can they check to see if they are a major submitter? Well I guess the computer could compile a count of submissions by person without actually telling the grader WHO the submitter is.
The reason for asking is there was a thread on this forum not to long ago, that explains the coin grading process. I believe it was Rick in the Q & A forum. He said that the coins first go to the receiving area, where 3 people take them out of their packaging, and assign their own unique number to it, and also place it in a generic package to be sent into the grading room. That way, the graders do not every see who the coin is from, wheather it is from a larger client, or a first time submitter. With this in mind, how do people believe that PCGS gives out a higher grade if the graders have no idea who's coin it is or from? I find it hard to believe that the graders will say, "Oh, this coin must be from so and so. Let's give it the higher grade if it is close." They can't know who's coin it is.
I also feel that they may "recognize" a particular coin if it is resubmitted, but how do the graders know if that coin has been bought by someone else, or who really owns it know.
It just seems like people's reasoning is wrong. If that is how the process works at PCGS, how can you know that there is a slight difference in grading standards if the graders do not know where the coin is from, who owns the coin know, or whether the coin has been bought or sold.
if pcgs suddenly received 1000 morgan dollars in BU for slabing, it would be obvious to all concerned that it was a major client submitting the coins. therefore, there might be a psycological (sp?) desire to keep that client "happy".
again, NO proof that this is the case, but i could see it happening. if they got 10 coins in on a particular day, there'd be no question it was a small-time submitter, so not "bump" to keep him happy (ie. he's not spending a lot of $ like the big guy).
my 2c worth.
K S
in your example #2, i know it seems to you that you LOST something, but you didn't. take your finger outa your ear and let this thing escape from your mind. it'll drive you crazy if you don't!!!!
al h.
My Complete PROOF Lincoln Cent with Major Varieties(1909-2015)Set Registry
if you accept that fact, then it behooves you to understand very clearly what is NOT covered by certification guarantees.
K S
<< <i>Dorkkarl - I'm curious back with your example of undergrading/overgrading -> if you bought an MS62 coin for $8000 from a dealer that actually was a MS63 coin worth $22000 does that mean you made a very good buy or did the dealer get screwed? >>
hey sinin1, i would say both, ie you did get a great buy, though you might not know it. & the delaer did get screwed, though he might not know it. note that in both cases, the reliance on the ignorance of the 2 parties is why certification works here.
as someone just pointed out, this is all true if MONEY is the key factor w/ certification. & i'm sorry, but it IS.
K S
I'm going to jump in here and say your SOL on the 14K. At some point and time you accepted
the 62 grade from PCGS. While you had ownership of the coin, you had every opportunity to have the coin regraded as many times as you felt neccesary. Having given up on the coin through a sale, you gave up all rights to that coin. The risk is the same to the new owner as the coin could have downgraded as well. And as we are all familiar with the fact that grading is not an exact science, the possibility that a coin may upgrade or downgrade on any given day is a well known fact and that's the way the game is played. It's like playing the lottery or slot machines, win or lose, that's life. Sure, it would be nice if a PCGS grade carried a lifetime gaurantee, that a coin cannot be resubmitted for 10 years or in your case if a coin is found to grade higher and because this was a mistake made on PCGS's behalf that you are are to be awarded the $14,000 in loses because of it? PCGS offers no gaurantee to the grades they render a coin unless it downgrades...............50% grade gaurantee?.........keets your on?.......well, I think I'm over my head with this one......... Let's just say, grading is only an opinion and that a grade can change from grader to grader. This is something that is accepted by many and that's the way the game is played so your just SOL. Unless, of course, you have a plan on how we can change the system.
Sorry I couldn't help you.
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
but is it my fault? keep in mind that the whole reason i spent money w/ pcgs was for their PROFESSIONAL opinion. & an allegedly guaranteed grade. but the bottom line is, like you said, SOL on the $14K that i lost because they undergraded the coin. shouldn't that be pcgs's fault, since they misgraded the coin to begin with?
i don't have a plan to change the system. all i am trying to do is make clear that it is false for anyone to claim that "anacs/icg/ngc/pcgs guarantees stands behind their grades 100%" when in fact they only guarantee one-half the grade, ie against downgrading, but not against upgrading. the truth is that the 4 slabing companies stand behind their grades 50%.
by no means am i suggesting that everyone stop using pcgs or any other slabing company because of this. but for chrissake, be an informed consumer, and KNOW what you are getting out of that grading guarantee, which amounts to HALF a guarantee.
K S