Coin World survey article: ACG unacceptable!!!

PhillyJoe

This may come as a total shock to most of us, but Accugrade was rated unacceptable in 7 of 11 categories and poor in three others. Diane Hag wants the names of the the dealers who filled out the survey. She wants a second opinion. OK, she's unattractive, too.

Joe

LucyBop

Mind boggling!

LanLord

Maybe if she/they spent as much time trying to produce a desireable product as they do making excuses and complaining they would have scored better. This doesn't seem like rocket science:

1 - Reasonable grading
2 - Retrieve all the incorrect grades out there and regrade them fairly - financially compensate those that got they "lunch stolen" because of crappy grading policies of the past

do that and they have got to get more respect in the coin community.

Now, this is easier said than done, they will go broke several times over trying to make ammends for what they have done over the years.

Second strategy, go out of business, start over with new name and refer to the first suggestion above.

nwcs

Personally, I like this quote from the article:
"Diane Hager, owner of ASA Accugrade, said: "I don't take it seriously. I don't think they speak for the coin industry. I question their methods. … There was no reason to have a survey. Everyone knew what the results would be, and I'm sure there was other motivation. The whole purpose was to discredit my product, my company. I think people with a brain are going to understand. Who really cares what PNG thinks? Who are they? Their pockets are big and deep and that's what this is about. … PNG is a self-serving, elitist organization, and I question the accuracy of their results. I'd like to know who these 151 dealers are and if they've ever used a service other than PCGS or NGC. … It's very disheartening when you've built a company for 18 years and have such a dedicated group of people."

Link to article

RLinn

At what point is a company's (ACG) image so tarnished that they are better off closing and reopening as a new entity? This of course only makes sense if the reopened business corrected prior deficiencies.

crito

ya, Coin World wouldn't be biased tho, would they? not defending ACG, by any means... but wouldn't surprise me if survey showed ANACS as having fantastic turnaround times either I wonder if any of the dealers who gave them a glowing review got discounts on advertising rather get my 'statistics' from an independent/unbiased source, like COINage mag

BillJones

Know of several people who took the survey. Some of them were dealers who received paper ballots. Not one of them gave ACG anything but a row of "F"s.

If you purposely build Yugos, don't expect to get Bentley ratings.

remumc

I wish I had known about this before I bought my one and only ACG slab. 1928-D Merc MS65FSB that in reality is AU55, has full bands though. They only missed it by 10 points! We all have to learn, it just cost some of us more than others. Thanks to these boards, I'm learning fast. This is my favorite part of the article.


"This past March, PNG officials issued a consumer advisory, urging caution because some buyers, especially newcomers who conduct transactions on the Internet, may discover their "bargain" purchases are too good to be true."

Wayne

Tonelover

The whole purpose was to discredit my product, my company.

Um, hasn't that already been accomplished? Even the lowlife fleas are jumping ship and going to PCI because credibility is so low.

From the get-go, this company has been in a state of denial which truly boggles the mind.

Hager remarked, "I don't have any customers complaining - dealers, big or small; collectors, big or small."

pontiacinf

rather than bad mouth anyone I have always just ignored the Hagar clan and gone with my eyes and heart on any purchase..acg is the only service my eyes have deemed unacceptable period.

and yes Diane Hager needs some bodily improvement, but that can be discussed elsewhere.

toners

I can honestly say with pleasure that I have not ever submitted or purchased an Accugrade Slab.
Allen

danreller

I wholeheartedly agree that the 3rd Party Coin Grading Company Accugrade (what an oxymoron) should receive the lowest possible marks. They are a joke.

However, I have seen very accurately graded coins in SEGS holders. In fact I don't remember seeing any errors in grading IMHO. But, I have only seen about a dozen or so.

PCGS, NGC and ANACS are still the best and I don't see their status position changing. ANACS are great in attributing problems to coins that the others are more reluctant to do. However, I have seen some outright errors in grading by ANACS. In fact I have several that they have graded MS that clearly exhibit wear and sholud have graded AU.

Dan

prooflike

I had to buy an ACG slab to get it out of my system, fortunately I was able to return it. It was cleaned and had PVC damage.

What I don;t understand, why doesn't ACG BB cleaned or damaged coins, they still get paid. Maybe they just can't grade?

Maybe it is the only way they can generate business, giving high grades(the above damaged coin was ACG MS65) to damaged goods.

dorkkarl

i am sorry to say this, but the survey is also not acceptable. it was taken from a population that, imo, does not fairly represent the overall complexion of coin buyers & collectors. it was taken from a very isolated group, & i gotta believe that the margin of error is therefore extremely high. personally, i put no faith in anything "png" does, as they represent a segment of the hobby motivated almost exclusively by profit.

i am sure that acg could target a segment of the collecting population and get completely inverted results. whether you like 'em or not, this survey is not fair and not representative. therefore, it is of little use to me. ie. it does nothing to affect my opinion of the various slabing services.

K S

ccr

I`m not a grading expert but, acg does " produce a less then quality product " . I saw an acg slab on e-bay a few months ago and it look like it had crumbs of Cheetos inside the slab. Weird to say the least.

So naturally there`s going to be " Playing Politics " . Thats part of having any business. I just don`t think Diane Hager is realisticly looking at the shortcomings of the company. Not unless she is developing a brand new system of grading that we don`t know about. Just my 2 cents anyway.

Russ

Karl is correct in his assertion that the survey really isn't valid because of the narrowness of scope, small sampling size, and the nature of the participants - although in his case, the opinion is more a function of his hatred for grading companies than any objective analysis.

That aside, though, the results do seem to reflect the opinions of the larger collecting community, as evidenced by the segment represented here at this forum.

Russ, NCNE

airplanenut

I'm sure every one of those dealers has seen an ACG slab... they probably have never submitted (as Hagar [The Horrible ]) said because they saw the product and didn't like it... see a few ACG slabs and I'm sure you've seen a screw-up... BIG TIME.

I have emailed ACG many times and never gotten a response... I don't think they deserve high marks on ability or customer service...

Jeremy

dorkkarl

i dislike use of the term "hatred" to describe my views regarding slabing companies. it biases other opinions w/out a factual basis, much like what is done regarding ACG. note that it is much like using terms such as "unacceptable" in surveys. "unacceptable" implies an evaluation rooted in opinion, not in measurable values.

a more useful survey might have been to poll dealers who actually have sold acg slabs side-by-side w/ other slabs, and compare retail values for equally assigned grades. that would be far more convincing than the png's "survey". however, i realize it would be far more costly and labor -intensive, requiring auditing of the participating parties. i think we could all guess what the results of my suggestion would be.

i "hate" hitler's concept of a nazi-dominated new world order. i "hate" the washington dc sniper. i "hate" those who planned to blow up the world trade center. but please refrain from indirect accusations that i "hate" grading companies, as it is not true, and i find it offensive.

it is true however that i do not value their services as highly as others on this forum.

K S

heavycopper

Darn, I have not seen this survey. I ordered Coin World again, but it as not arrived yet. I bought the subscription from a kid at my coin club. It is good they are printing things like this. Now the ANA just needs to print some warnings for collectors and procescute AGC for coin fraud.

dorkkarl

i don't think it is realistic to think acg can be prosecuted for "fraud", as they provide a service which does nothing more than encapsulate coins along w/ their opinion as to the coin's grade. that is nothing different than what the other slabing services do. but i guess you might be able to demonstrate that a dealer who claims that acg uses the same criteria for grading as ngc, for example, might be a target.

does ACG claim anywhere to use "ANA standards" for grading coins? if so, AND if you could prove that it is a lie, you might be able to prosecute, but i ain't no legal authority.

K S

Viper

PNG found a way to publicly slap around the people who deserved it and keep their liability to a minimum since it was not their opinion.

I LMAO while reading that article. It was a beautiful thing and although it may have been biased, it seems to be fairly in line with collectors that I know and trade with.

And unfortunately as long as there is Ebay and new collectors there will be the pond scum that are the "satisfied clientele" that use this service to sucker those individuals in.

its4real

In order for there to be a "best" - there must be a worst.

1956Quarter

"Diane Hager, owner of ASA Accugrade, said: "I don't take it seriously. I don't think they speak for the coin industry. I question their methods. … There was no reason to have a survey. Everyone knew what the results would be, and I'm sure there was other motivation. The whole purpose was to discredit my product, my company. I think people with a brain are going to understand. Who really cares what PNG thinks? Who are they? Their pockets are big and deep and that's what this is about. … PNG is a self-serving, elitist organization, and I question the accuracy of their results. I'd like to know who these 151 dealers are and if they've ever used a service other than PCGS or NGC. … It's very disheartening when you've built a company for 18 years and have such a dedicated group of people."


There is one thing that really irritates me more than Political Correctness.... Denial, and excuses. If your a LOOSER, own up to the fact, and make the required changes, and stop the whining and moaning.

Spooly

"Playing Politics " "narrowness of scope, small sampling size, and the nature of the participants"

I agree, but why did NGC score so high?

PCGS-PNG
NGC-ANA

Pushkin

Unfortunately, the survey was not done scientifically, as Dorkkarl pointed out. The are many reasons to believe it was (intentionally or unintentionally) biased in favor of PCGS and NGC. The sample size was too small. This kind of "amateur" survey only helps to cloud matters and raise even more questions about the credibility of the whole grading service issue - politics, external influence, bias in favor of large dealers, etc. Some of the smaller services have sound reasons for complaining.

While I agree with some of the results, the publication of this "set of opinions" disguised as a survey is unfortunate.

I think Larry Briggs raised the best objections, as did Dorkkark in this thread.

PNG and ICTA have done numsmatics a disservice by conducting and publishing this "survey". They have egg all over their faces and they put it there.

The grading services have much to answer for - but lets give them a fair trial - then hang the ones that deserve to be hung.

Personally (just my opinion) - I don't consider ACG a grading service - they are a vendor of sealed plastic containers - but that is only my opinion.

Gilbert

Crito

I think "Beth Deisher" Ed of CW, did an outstanding job pointing out the deficiencies in that "survey." Even though it is editorial, just about everybody knows who she is. To me, editorial or not, with her at the helm, I really believe she keeps some objectivity to the publication. I also admit I am not always in agreement with her views, but more often than not, it seems to me she provides some balance to any perceptions of bias at CW.