How Can you tell if a Proof Ike is DCAM or CAM?

moosesr

I am getting ready to submit some Proof Ikes to PCGS for grading and would like to know how to determine if a Clad or silver proof is CAM or DCAM. I have a Proof Clad 1974S, Proof Clad 1973S, and Proof Silver 1976S that I would like to submit to PCGS. I also have a PCGS PF68DCAM 1978S that I am using for comparison to determine if these coins might be DCAM's. The 1978S PF68DCAM has much more contrast than either of the other three coins I am submitting. Is there any difference in DCAM requirements between the dates and composition of Ike dollars?

Thanks, Charlie

Russ

If it has super nova devices and black hole mirrors, it's a CAM. If it has the preceding, accompanied by a $100 bill with the submission, it's a DCAM.

Russ, NCNE

FrattLaw

What an interesting question you ask. DCAM vs. CAM is sometimes difficult to tell. But DO NOT use the 78-S as an example. That is one of the most heavily frosted coins in the series. The 74 & 73 are hard DCAMs to make. The 76 silver should be easier. Does the 76 look like the 78, if it does that should come back DCAM.

You really need to compare the 74 & 73 to other of the same year that are DCAM to get a feel. I have an entire set of PR69 DCAMs, matter of fact go look at my set, there's pics for you to see the differences.

If you see any breaks in the frost, no DCAM, a few small spots should be okay. Scratches=CAM, any unevenness in the frost probably means CAM.

I wish I could describe this better perhaps Tad (Supercoin) can give you an expert opinion.

Good Luck

Michael

MW Fattorosi Collection

supercoin

Don't you have any easy questions??

FrattLaw is right, the early clads (73, 74, 76 Ty1) do not generally come "frosty" and consequently PCGS will usually cut them some slack. But look for at least some cameo across all the devices, including the lettering. The shallow relief and wide lettering around the reverse rim on the 76 Ty1 is often a problem area.

PCGS is not terribly consistent with the designation either, in my experience.

FrattLaw

Ah yes! Tad makes a great point that I forgot and most people submitting probably forget. Not only does the devices need to be frosty, so does the lettering. No frosty lettering NO DCAM. Look very carefully. But also don't forget the mirrors as well..

Good Luck, let us know how it turns out. I'm about to submit 5-10 Ikes (73,74,75 & 76) also looking for 69DCAMs. I hope I can follow my own advice.

Michael


MW Fattorosi Collection

moosesr

Thanks for all the good information! One more question When you talk about breaks in the frost, do you mean shiney spots when you hold the coin at an angle to the light or just lighter areas of frost?

Charlie

presleyh

One more painful revelation, the reverse has to be totally dcam as well as the obverse. I just got one back from pcgs that is dcam on the front but didnt even get a cam designation. Just pr68. bummer. But i guess I see what they mean upon further investigation.

Placid

Sned it to pcgs and read the label when it comes back

supercoin

Breaks in the frost sometimes occur on the high-points of the coin -- which were the low points of the die -- because the metal didn't fully flow into the lowest points of the die to press against the sandblasted surface that produces the cameo. I think it can also happen if there's some leftover metal debris in the devices that blocks the cameo.

Whichever, the result is there will be a little flat or shiny spot in the cameo -- easily mistaken for a rub mark if you didn't know what it was.

I don't place much emphasis on small breaks like that, and am not convinced PCGS does either, though it's often mentioned.

More commonly on Ikes, the coins seem to be well-struck but the cameo on the die is wearing away... i.e. part of the devices will be frosty, fading to brilliant.

The earth on the reverse is often one of the first things to go, maybe because the cameo on the die is in a shallow recess, and takes more abuse from the planchets. Or, maybe since it's so shallow, it gets partly polished away.

Keep in mind that when the dies are prepared, the recessed devices are first sandblasted to produce the cameo, then the raised fields are polished to produce the mirrors.

Also as mentioned, both sides are important at PCGS. This is in contrast to many "shiny back" ICG Ike proofs, for example.

But again, don't expect perfect consistency with any grading service on cameo.

SarasotaFrank

<< <i>DO NOT use the 78-S as an example. That is one of the most heavily frosted coins in the series. >>



another of my bubbles bursted. All of my 78-S Ikes are fabulously frosted with deep mirror finishes. I figured I was just really lucky, or they finally figured out how to do this consistently.

supercoin

Yep, they finally figured out how to do it right. 1978 proof sets were a huge leap forward in quality.

And of course a couple decades later, taking full advantage of the significant advances in technology throughout the whole spectrum of human activity, the cameo found in proof sets IS... (envelope please)... mediocre.

Go figure.