Message from an Elitist Collector(sic)
33Goudey
Posts: 21
Zardoz51 and CrazySc,
Recently, both of you have made posts that denigrated the Network54 board, and the people that post there. I am at almost a complete loss to understand this unprovoked attack by the two of you. Everybody has always been welcome to post at Network54, although the discussion area is limited to pre-war cards.
Paul, perhaps it's because all of the posters there would not
consider the '70 Kellogg's set to be vintage.
Recently, both of you have made posts that denigrated the Network54 board, and the people that post there. I am at almost a complete loss to understand this unprovoked attack by the two of you. Everybody has always been welcome to post at Network54, although the discussion area is limited to pre-war cards.
Paul, perhaps it's because all of the posters there would not
consider the '70 Kellogg's set to be vintage.
0
Comments
Sounds like this guy wants to do a little pre War talking
Didn't hitler have some elitist guys or was that sadaam.
--------------------------->>>>>This scuds for you.
Of course! Could there be any other reason?
The Network54 board is indeed geared for the serious prewar collector and there is a great deal of information to be mined there. I read the board nearly everyday, and in between the bashing of PSA, exposing idiot and crooked ebay sellers (which is a good thing), and flaming Dr. Koos and his enterprises, one can find the occasional informative post covering an obscure area of the hobby.
I have posted twice in a year, one to whine at Mastro, the other to actually praise the board for its educational value in helping me learn more about an area where I freely admit that my knowledge is weak. Frankly, I find the board to be a rather unfriendly to new posters, rarely does one find a "welcome" to a new member, and one gets the feeling that the board is a clique where true membership is limited to those that regard anything after 1919 as modern junk, let alone the 1970 Kellogg's. Fair enough, it's your board to run any way that you see fit to.
Please do not misunderstand, I am not condemning a board that specifically caters to a narrow field, in fact I understand the need for such a venue though the entire Net54 board would be made to feel welcome on the PSA board hopefully to share their knowledge and perhaps generate some excitement and interest in their areas of expertise.
For the record, my original comments were specifically aimed at an individual whose tolerance for posts outside of his interests was limited. That is why is made the suggestion that he consider your board. Instead of chastising me for my comments, I should be praised for sending a serious, dedicated, and respected collector in your direction.
But frankly, there's a little bit of elitism in all of us. People who collect PSA 10s look down on PSA 9s. Prewar collectors look down on modern cards. Most dealers and collectors look down on "mass marketers" (lol - I crack myself up sometime). PSA collectors look down on non-PSA (esp. non "big 3-4") graded cards. But I think the Network 54 board goes a little further - look at titles of popular threads like "I can't believe people are still buying this shat..." - which basically sums up how much of the dialogue goes.
Again, there's nothing wrong with it, I just think much of it is elitiest. And by your very post - limiting discussion to prewar DOES create that sense.
Hey, live and let live. I have enjoyed the posts on the M101 and W555 discussions. Things I do enjoy reading about are those items that I don't alreadly know of.
S
(PS - Note all very poor grammer/spelling - part of my way of not being elitiest).
Jeff,
Here is the link Network 54 Forum ....beware of the pop-up ads though. Zardoz is right though...you will find the same 6 or so members posting.
John
They do sometimes come across as elitist -- but I often think that they have some good points, too. They are great watchdogs on Ebay for the types of things they collect -- and they certainly do not hesitate to point out the shortcomings of grading companies (PSA *does* seem to make more mistakes with many of the turn-of-the-century, non-T-206 issues....)
Marc
I am glad this subject was brought up, but really think it should be on the other CU board too. I do not believe the other board is elitist, but it can be stand-offish. I read it every day and contribute now and again. New posters are frequently welcomed--check the threads. I think there is a certain familiarity with some of the members, but hey, that's ok.
I am a type collector whose interest spans the whole pre-war and post-war period. I seem to be in a minority--kind of a man without a country. The mindset on the Net 54 board is set collecting in mid-grade, presentable condition. The mindset here is set collecting in pristine condition. I love the chase of finding obscure m101-4 variations, but also drool at a '61 Maris PSA 9. Thus, I follow both boards.
Net54 routinely roasts PSA because frankly, it deserves it when it comes to many pre-war issues. I mean, some of the mislabeling alone is comical. Also and again, the collectors on the other board are mostly looking for vg to ex+ condition cards because, realistically, that is all they can expect to find to fill tough sets. It blows their minds (and mine) that someone would pay a significant multiplier just because a third-party grading service assigns a particular number to a card. I truly believe that many on that board are better graders of the prewar material than is PSA, simply becasue they have devoted far more time and effort to their hobby. Here, let's face it- the object is to amass as many of those third-party graded slabs as possible, regardless of whether you would agree with the grade.
There really is no condescension toward postwar collectors, and I have not seen much criticism of anybody who wants to complete PSA graded sets on the registry. Also, I have asked that board specifically whether anyone collects postwar material, and got some great responses and scans, albeit mostly 50's stuff like Wilsons, Red Mans, Kahns, etc. I think the board would be a little protective if there was a whole slew of 1960's Topps questions focusing on pop reports, but a little variety is welcome.
Finally, if I could gripe here, it seems there is little information provided about the sets themselves that are collected. For example, I wonder why no one has tried to determine the double printed card in the high series from 1961, as there almost certainly was one, and why no one offers up a theory as to why number 587 and 588 from that set were not issued. I collect '61s with a passion and notice these things, and there must be similar quirks about other sets from the era that collectors would know. The closest I really get to information here is to find out things like a '61 Koufax often has a stray green mark by the face, so and so is almost always off-center. etc. Believe me, that alone is worthwhile, but I wish others would share what they know or care about the sets from the 60's and 70's.
Sorry to ramble.
Regards...................Todd
ebay id: nolemmings
First things first.
Welcome to the board!
Now:
You have raised some great questions in regard to postwar cards that will probably be lost here as this topic is so far removed from your questions that many of those who might actually have an answer or theory will probably miss it. Start up your own topic and go from there.
As it so happens, I am on pretty good terms with BcD from the Net54 board, despite the fact he continually threatens to eat my children.
Good post. It's nice to hear from some of the forum54 members. I've only posted a couple times
there. I'm not a pre-war collector. I post here because of my interests are similar to many on
this board. I do prefer high end (or close to it) cards.
I do read the other board every other day or so. It has great information. I do not own any
pre-war cards but did buy the book that was put out by Lew Lipset to learn more about the
cards. I've also purchased a couple issues of VCBC to get some insight of this type of collector.
It is nice reading. But collecting cards in vg or less condition has no interest to me. I've
always prefered post war and higher end cards. This is just my preference.
My only negative comments with 54 are with the constant bickering that went on with Koos's auctions.
That got old quickly. I've also noticed that when a newbie posts on the board the question
or comments may go unanswered. And finally, the constant posts about "Libertyforall" and
AAA grading or something like that is too repetitive for a daily reader.
Still, it's very informative and a fresh different point of view.
Welcome!
aconte
I appreciate the welcome. I will post separately and see what happens.
I am not as fortunate as you when it comes to Hannibal Daniels, who does not hold me in very high regard.
ebay id: nolemmings
I agree with you on the complaints you raised concerning the net54 board and Koos's auctions,
"Libertyforall" and AAA grading. Some points tend to get hammered to death, but after awhile, you learn to just skip those threads altogether.
I too prefer high grade stuff-always have. I'm a sucker for it, even though it usually means I end up starting (later stalling and never finishing) multiple sets. Have ten or so beautiful '62 Fleer BkBall-- easily 8s; so too with a handful of '69 Topps Supers, half of '63 Fleer, 300 or so '65 Topps, some '58 Hires, '54 Bowman, '57 Topps FB, 64-67 Philly FB, 66 and 67 Topps FB. '72-73 OPC Hockey (starting to see my problem yet?).
My difference from you folks (PREPARE FOR BLASPHEMY) is that I have no intention of collecting a PSA registered set. STONE HIM! OFF WITH HIS HEAD! FIND OUT WHERE HE LIVES!!! GRAB HIS CARDS AND SUBMIT THEM TO PRO-- THAT'LL TEACH HIM!! I buy some graded cards on EBay because I need them, but as often as not, when they arrive, I am disappointed in the grade and feel I've overpaid (mostly because I'm a corner freak--they're hard to judge from scans).
Actually, PSA has steered me into collecting a variety of sets simply because they are not graded-- that way I can get high condition stuff I like wo/competing with you guys. I even enjoy collecting complete '75 Hostess boxes (there's currently a mint Nolan Ryan box not hitting its $3.95 minimum with 5 hours to go), '71 Milk Duds, 60's Bazooka panels, the aforementioned Hires and '62 Topps Stamps (I know, PSA grades them now, so they won't stay cheap for long).
Anyway, to each his own, and thanks for the vine................Todd
ebay id: nolemmings
For what it's worth, many pre-war cards actually can be affordable if you are open to lower-condition cards. Though high-graded pre-war commons run into the hundreds of dollars, I find it warming and welcoming to younger collectors that many T205 and T206 cards, in lower condition, can be purchased for approximately the price of a single pack of modern baseball cards. That accessability helps keep this hobby fun and helps get younger people intersted in the truly vintage cards.
MS
Yes you are right about how many pre-war cards in lower condition are very afordable. My problem is I like the challenge of finding the highest grade cards. I won't stay completely away from pre-war cards forever, I bought my first C46 with the intention of building the set, and still plan to build the set one day. I also love the T205 set and may try to build that set one day too. I like that there are a lot of small pre-war sets, and I also love old time baseball players. The fact that some cards are very hard to find in any conditon is also apealing to me.