Ok, a serious question that I need an answer to.
jmwarren
Posts: 155 ✭
A simple, honest, hypothetical question, that I don't know the answer to, but would like to know. In regards to the recent "monster" comm. purchased by Anaconda. NGC slabbed that coin. I don't know NGC's specific policy, but, lets say, hypothetically, 5 years from now, AT'ing can easily be detected through new tests. And that "monster" is proved to be AT. Would NGC have to pony up the $20,000 for it (I think it was $20,000 someone said its worth), or, would they pay what an "untoned" coin of the same grade would be worth. Or, would they say "sorry, no refunds".
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Does anyone know the poem that says something like..."as lovely as a tree..." and who wrote it? The palm tree reminded me of this poem.
NGC as well as PCGS guarantee the COIN and would place a value according to the grade on the insert and the "new" grade after the AT detection.
No grading Service is (and again, nor should they be!) liable for the PRICE someone paid for the coin.
Otherwise, why not pay $5,000.00 for that MS67 clad Kennedy, only to have NGC downgrade it to MS66- should they then refund what I PAID?
Crazy talk.
peacockcoins
Russ, NCNE
Trees by Joyce Kilmer (1886–1918)
I think that I shall never see
A poem lovely as a tree.
A tree whose hungry mouth is prest
Against the sweet earth's flowing breast;
A tree that looks at God all day,
And lifts her leafy arms to pray;
A tree that may in summer wear
A nest of robins in her hair;
Upon whose bosom snow has lain;
Who intimately lives with rain.
Poems are made by fools like me,
But only God can make a tree.
All along that anti-toning stuff was to drive the price down. Genius!
NOTE: No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However, a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
Type collector since 1981
Current focus 1855 date type set
If I buy a coin that is graded - say MS 68 Toned - and then later it's found that it's AT - why can't I rely upon the 3rd party grade?
They are supposed to be the experts....they charge like they are anyway...
I have the recourse, do I not, to go back to them and say "Hey - whasssup???" "You mofo's sticker is on dis thang and I paid my good coins fer it and now it aint $hlt. SO whassup?"
Now - I don't know about you - but I personally would be looking for recompense from the grading company that caused me to lose.
see? My Auctions "Got any 1800's gold?"
roadrunner
see? My Auctions "Got any 1800's gold?"
If I want to spend twenty grand on a coin that sheets at $500.00 that's MY business and my set of values and issues at play- NOT PCGS or NGC's!
They would need to refund, of course, if the coin is deemed to be AT, but not the stupid money I chose to pay for it.
PCGS and NGC are NOT in the "Coin Insurance" business of overpayment.
peacockcoins
Russ, NCNE
So, I would think if an AT coin went bad in the holder, and you could show that the market value of a similarly toned real coin was in fact $20K, they would have some liability.
Just my guess, never tried it.
TRUTH
Tbig
We are? Actually, I was questioning his assertion.
know of only several cases where the expensive coin was replaced and of only ONE case where the buyer was refunded money(under $1000)
Do you mean this specifically in regard to AT? More generally speaking, I know of many cases where PCGS has refunded money. And at least several over $1000, including one from personal experience.
Speaking more in generalitites (not with specific reference to this $20k coin), I believe at the heart of the top grading companies' guarantee is the notion of "good faith and fair dealing" on both sides and the "spirit" of the circumstances. Where someone spends $20,000 on a $500 coin, of course a grading company should not be responsible to pay $20,000 on a coin that turns out to be a problem. But, where the $20,000 was paid on a coin that routinely sells for $10,000-$20,000 for similar exceptional color (or a coin that routinely sells for a price unrelated to the "sheet"), the question is far different.
But, I believe, it boils down to this: What are the specific circumstances of the requested payment under the guaranteee? Is it a dealer intentionally buying the worse coin he could find for the grade at a greatly reduced price and then asking the grading company to pay the going rate for a typical example in that grade (i.e. using the guarantee for profit)? Want to guess how the dealer will come out of this one regardless of the fine print? Is it a hard-working collector who buys the slabbed coin in 100% reliance upon the excellent reputation of the top grading company and after doing his homework that revealed that the coin in question always sells for 2x or 3x sheet, which is why he paid 2x or 3x sheet. Anyone out there who doesn't think this collector stands a better chance to recover his loss than the dealer trying to work a profit on the guarantee? Thus, the issue of the guaranty is always FACT DRIVEN.
At this moment, I can repeat again that PCGS and NGC has NEVER failed to remedy a situation to my entire satisfaction involving a coin under their Guaranty. Virtually all of these coins I have presented to the grading companies over the years are owned by honest collectors, who did not buy the coin to profit from the guaranty. I am, once again, assisting a collector right now with a coin under the Guaranty. The matter is progressing in an acceptable manner. Everyone is acting in good faith and there is fair dealing on both sides - the key to understanding the Guaranty and what it stands for IMHO. Wondercoin.