Marshall Fogel takes over the top spot in 1961

Buckwheat · October 22, 2002 10:08AM

That dastardly Marshall has taken over the top spot in the 61 set! What fiendish means did he use to get there??

Great set, Marshall.

Well, sports fans, not to worry. Rumor has it that I will be back on top before long. ......Of course that is unless some of the sandbaggers out there show up for a last minute surprise.

Buck

Edited to add link
1961 Topps

thegemmintman · October 22, 2002 10:13AM

That's a new set registered by Marshall. That sneaky Marshall, jumping in like that towards the end of the Registry Contest just so he'll have enough winning certificates to wallpaper his trophy room

.

Buckwheat, you have to sandbag him by the 31st!

theBobs · October 22, 2002 10:31AM

go get him Buck

GATOR5 · October 22, 2002 10:53AM

Guys,

Rumor has it he's prowling around in some other sets also...

Matt

Wayne8348 · October 22, 2002 12:07PM

Matt,

Don't leave us hanging - what other sets?

Wayne

calleocho · October 22, 2002 12:53PM

Buck you are a nice guy to deal with and i wish you the best.

you have an impressive GPA ...hopefully time will be on your side... you have less than 10 days to regain your # 1 spot and get the certificate

good luck

Buckwheat · October 22, 2002 4:02PM

Thanks for the encouragement, guys. My set is hidden right now as it undergoes improvement, and I have to keep my cards close to the vest. But rest assured that when it is back to 100%, I will let all see. GPA will be going up in the meantime, thanks to help from others.

It might seem "odd", but I think that the 60's would be the place to look for Marshall showing up.

BTW, Realize that my initial post about the "dastardly" Marshall is all in fun. He is one of the class acts in this hobby.

Duke · October 23, 2002 12:17AM

Rob-I have faith that you will reclaim the NO 1 spot-guess I will have to settle for NO 3 in 61-I enjoyed the top spot in 65 for less then a week before Mastro came back-hopefully someone is not laying in the weeds for me in 63.I resigned myself to being 2nd in the 50's to Marshall-he is a great guy and a true collector-Duke

Davalillo · October 23, 2002 12:50AM

Marshall and Charlie have all these sets ungraded nmt-mt in and around this time period--its just a question of when they decide to send them in to get graded.

murcerfan · October 23, 2002 12:56AM

I'm sure they are both thrilled that you have taken it upon yourself to post this info;
true or not.

Davalillo · October 23, 2002 1:12AM

Really??

This is widely known--and why would they care if someone knew they had ungraded sets anyway.

murcerfan · October 23, 2002 1:45AM

Really

mikeschmidt · October 23, 2002 1:58AM

Murcerfan- Are you being serious?!

As for Charlie and Marshall -- I have talked to Charlie once or twice -- and it is widely known that he has large hoardes of many of those sets in top grade. I wouldn't be surprised if one or both of them might have a few of the coveted Presentation Sets from the 1963 - 1963 time period, too.

And, I don't know if this applies to 1960s sets -- but I think that Charlie at least has a few incomplete sets from each year after his "master" set. He told me that he has a top-grade 1955 Bowman set (still in raw form), but has has a few boxes of duplicates that he had had before in his continual process of upgrading to his master set. It is kind of scary to think that someone is sitting on so many sets that are in EX/MT to Near Mint condition. But Charlie and Marshall are two of the pillars of this hobby -- and Charlie at least (haven't talked to Marshall much) is a true collector -- he's just been lucky enough to have a very flexible budget to enjoy his hobby. But he really loves baseball, cards and the like. He is passionate about cards and has been for much longer than I have even been alive.

MS

Basilone · October 23, 2002 2:16AM

Maybe the public knowledge of "hoards of raw sets in top grade" will some how affect the future value of their current graded collections. Supply&Demand.....then add in public perception.

Imagine if information leaked that there were large reserves of top grade Kellogg's out there....what would be the market reaction?

John

mikeschmidt · October 23, 2002 2:35AM

John:

Perhaps top grade is being a little optimistic. I think that collectors like Charlie may have many sets with a large number of raw cards that might grade out in the PSA 6, 7 and 8 range. But I don't think besides their ungraded master sets that too many have shots for much above 8.

You must also remember that many of these sets were collated at a time where centering was not afforded the same premium that today's collectors place on it.

MS

Basilone · October 23, 2002 2:42AM

MS-

Good points. I have no idea why they would not get their Master ungraded sets encapsulated....just for protection if anything else.

John

dom · October 23, 2002 2:57AM

Keep your chin up, Rob. I'm rooting for you.

Davalillo · October 23, 2002 3:04AM

John,

I think that the vast majority of their cards would come back 7s or 8s. I think the main reason that one of the gentleman has not sent in more sets is frustration over the grades. A vintage set he sent in came back 50% or so 8s which he was very unhappy with--rumor has it that GAI has graded or perhaps pregraded one of his sets at a very attractive price. While they have a lot of sets that are ungraded I would doubt as if there are "hoardes" of each set ungraded that would affect market value. Oh, and I will get back to you with the info you requested...sorry for the delay.

Davalillo

Buckwheat · October 23, 2002 11:19AM

Marshall's 1961 set has a grade of 8.32. While it is likely he bought some of the cards, especially the star cards, already graded, I am sure that the largest portion came from his own cards.

I think it is fair to say that people aren't sitting on hoardes of ungraded mint cards, there are certainly nice cards still out there. My 1961 set started when I bought a bunch of 8's and 9's that came from 1 presentation set. The set had about 75 PSA 9's, and over 250 PSA 8's. Since there were very few stars injcluded, I think that maybe some of the stars were pulled first and sold seperately. Not bad for 1 presentation set. Does anyone have any idea how many presentation sets were created a year??

GATOR5 · October 23, 2002 11:32AM

Rob,

When you say presentation set do you mean send away sets from topps?

Matt

mikeschmidt · October 23, 2002 12:17PM

Presentation sets were specially made, high gloss, more attention to cutting, etc. sets made by Topps given away to officialls, friends, etc. I would guesstimate that at least hundreds of these sets were made -- though not quite as many survive anymore.

Gator5 -- This topic has been discussed in depth before. I'm not sure, but you may be able to find some threads on that in the archives of this board.

SGC has graded quite a few of the presentation sets -- often because they label cards from presentation sets as being such. I know one collector who has a very high grade 1962 Topps SGC-graded set that was primarily put together from a series of presentation sets from that year....

Buckwheat · October 25, 2002 2:34PM

I'm getting closer. I think I'll have him soon. Thanks to Paul Cohen for finding me 15 high number and Star 9's............and for helping my wallet fit back in my pants. Paul is another class act.

Buck

Buckwheat · October 28, 2002 8:14AM

Marshall Fogel takes over the top spot in 1961

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