1969 Topps Supers - questions
1420sports
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I know these are rare, but I have never seen one lower than a PSA 9. I mean it. I have been looking for a Rose PSA 7-8 (I do not know if I could even afford one of those grades on my budget) and have never, ever, ever, seen one in those grades.
The only time I have seen one was at the Ft Washington show. I saw a PSA 9 and a 10, and I believe it was the same dealers who had them last year.
Are these cards THAT rare? Are there raw examples out there? Has anyone seen these? How many were made?
Thanks in advance fellas. And ladies ...
The only time I have seen one was at the Ft Washington show. I saw a PSA 9 and a 10, and I believe it was the same dealers who had them last year.
Are these cards THAT rare? Are there raw examples out there? Has anyone seen these? How many were made?
Thanks in advance fellas. And ladies ...
collecting various PSA and SGC cards
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Let me tell you what I can, and I'll make this a long drawn-out story, so I apologize. At one time, I owned one of the nicest graded collections of 1969 Topps Supers -- probably back in the 1998, 1999 timeframe. I sold the bulk majority of that collection to a good friend, Bob Earhart, who has an almost perfect 1969 Topps Supers set. He didn't purchase my Mickey Mantle 10, which was always a jewel in my collection. I did keep four cards -- three PSA 10's and one PSA 9, of my beloved Phillies team. I applaud Bob's effort in putting together such a nice set.
As for the actual set -- the presence of rounded corners greatly increases the ability to find these cards in high grade. There is no doubt that when these cards are found, they are often found in high grade. There are more reasons for this than the rounded corners, though. The 1969 Topps Super set was not widely followed or released to the general public in 1969. In fact, to this day, I think there are a few more than three surviving examples of unopened packs (three sold by SportsCards Plus in the last 12 months), and the wrapper to this issue is one of the rarest in the hobby. They simply did not receive accolades from the collecting public at the time, despite the high-gloss and beautiful, borderless photography.
For most of the 1970s, this set of cards could be purchased through a distributor for either $19.95 or $24.95 (now -- I am speaking from general knowledge, not personal experience...I was only born in 1976....) and it was in the full set form. I don't have enough information to know the distribution methodology (e.g., I am sure that the distributor did not break them out of packs -- but I'm unsure of how exactly he got, packed and distributed them). The point I am getting at is this -- most of the sets of 1969 Topps Supers that entered the hobby entered about five to ten years after the cards were released -- and they were sold directly to colectors -- not through Topps. Thus, they are generally more well-preserved.
These cards certainly are that rare. Finding a NM-MT/MINT set of these cards today will set you back between $5,000 and $10,000. The last two MINT sets that sold through auctions both realized in the $7,000 range. Currently, Lew Lipset has a NM/MT set that has an opening bid of $3,000. These cards simply were never mass produced -- and many examples of them don't exist. There is a large premium on these cards when you can find them. From a population perspective, to find a high-grade 1969 Topps Super Pete Rose should be about 8-10 times harder than, for example, a 1969 Topps Regular issue.
That being said, they are abundant in high grade. I think a full 60% of the graded examples of these grade out at PSA 9 or PSA 10. Pete Rose is no exception -- only 36% of his graded examples are less than PSA 9 condition. In the sometimes cyclical nature of this industry -- because these cards are often only found in high grade, dealers are most likely to only stock those high grade examples in their inventory if and when they have examples to sell. Additionally, cards that will not grade out at PSA 9 probably are not submitted that often except for high-end players like Rose. A card that is PSA 8 or less usually has one of the following three problems: a) a white edge from being cut seriously off-center, b) print clouds that are wildly distracting (Willie Mays cards from this set are the worst for this example -- 80% of the 9's have this cloud, and that cloud is the main reason there has not been a 10 graded yet) and c) wear or the edges (again, white will show from the wear).
One of the last times I looked, Kris Keppler had quite a few PSA 7 and PSA 8 1969 Topps Supers cards -- alas, no Pete Rose, though. Your best bet, Neal, would probably be to find a raw example. I wish I could direct you to a place, but I don't know where off the top of my head. The set Lew Lipset has on auction right now would probably yield a PSA 7, PSA 8 or PSA 9 Rose, but I'm sure you are not interested in this set. Because of its value and rarity, these cards are often either sold as a set, or graded individually.
I love talking about this set and sharing anything I can. If you have more questions, please post on this board. I hope that my little story above is at least somewhat helpful to you.
I thought the same thing about the rounded corners on the cards thus making it easier for a high grade.
I am going to get started on this ....
Here is a link to the card you are looing for, it's this new place I just discovered called e-bay.
Has anybody else used this site?? It looks pretty Kool.
Great synopsis. I often wonder if there would be a way to take such information that people have and will write and organize it into a much better database than simply what can be found with a general search.
This is why I really enjoy this message board - so many people with REAL knowledge and without the attitudes...
Great idea. Of course, simple is better. A search of quality information in previous posts could be placed in a single location with links to specific topics -- a FAQ so to speak for the board. Unfortunately, finding someone with the time and energy to lead the project is the trick.
CU turns its lonely eyes to you
What's the you say, Mrs Robinson
Vargha bucks have left and gone away?
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A database would be nice. The vintage board really does not work (from what I hear and have experienced) so I would like to see something offered here. A PSA "wantlist" in the SMR would be a start.
murcerfan - thanks for the listing, I had contacted the seller prior and he is sending a scan.
The registry board is the best one, as you guys are nice fellas as well as courteous to others. For the most part, intelligent as well
Did you buy that Rose?? If it's decent (psa 8's aren't that hard on these) you got a good deal.
I have decided to sell my '69 supers set currently ranked #4. Anybody with a want list should e-mail me (terwilliger@charter.net).
Davallilo,
I have 19 cards that will improve your set, so let me know and I will send a list of them (some are 2 grade jumps)
Please send cards and prices to jdc122@aol.com.
Davalillo(Jim)
Your set is not displayed -- so there is no way for the rest of us to know what the grades of the cards are that are in your #4 set. I'm just curious to see if any of the Phillies cards you have are in PSA 10. PLMK.
Marc
My Rojas is one of the few 8's , Allen and Short are 9's.
I'm sending the Allen back in, it's about perfect and belongs in a 10.
I will keep you posted.
Davallilo, will send tonight via PE.
Do have a 69 Super Rose PSA?