Are you/do you buy NGC or other coins?
DAM
Posts: 2,410 ✭✭
Two issues:
I've noticed over the past year or so, especially the past few months, dealer inventorys seem to be lacking PCGS coins. Not that PCGS coins aren't any available, but it seems NGC coins are easier to find. No doubt because of increased interest in the Registry. Because of this are you buying coins certified by other services and trying to cross them? Or just playing a waiting game hoping the one you want becomes available?
And what about Monsta's topic (Latest market report) that dealt with coin prices and what's hot. Have you gotten caught up in the hype? Is there a bubble forming like in the late 80's?
I've noticed over the past year or so, especially the past few months, dealer inventorys seem to be lacking PCGS coins. Not that PCGS coins aren't any available, but it seems NGC coins are easier to find. No doubt because of increased interest in the Registry. Because of this are you buying coins certified by other services and trying to cross them? Or just playing a waiting game hoping the one you want becomes available?
And what about Monsta's topic (Latest market report) that dealt with coin prices and what's hot. Have you gotten caught up in the hype? Is there a bubble forming like in the late 80's?
Dan
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Comments
Cameron Kiefer
My PCGS coins probably outnumber NGC 10 to one but NGC has done much to gain loyal collectors.
peacockcoins
Good point about NGC's Registry. It would save buying dupes and/or spending money on crossovers. I think my PCGS coins outnumber my NGCs by about 15 to 1, similar to what Pat stated. I'm considering putting some sets on NGC's site, but I don't want to have to keep track of two sites when updating my collection. That may change though, who knows.
Registry 1909-1958 Proof Lincolns
In God We Trust.... all others pay in Gold and Silver!
We'll use our hands and hearts and if we must we'll use our heads.
I won't even look at an ACG coin. I am supposed to check out a SEGS chain cent at Baltimore. I am eager to see it.
When I surf on ebay, I usually look at NGC and ANACS stuff first anyways for the best bargains! Everyone is way too eager to pay more for the same coin in a different holder...........not me.
Why not cross them over? In the past I might have tried, but I've decided that if a coin passes the world famous "tradedollarnut test" then the holder it's in is good enough. What, you might ask, is the world famous "tradedollarnut test"? That's the test where I study the coin and decide if I like it enough to pull out my wallet and buy it!
Unfortunately, it seems that PCGS likes a certain "look" that doesn't always fit my eye. I also believe that coins cracked out have many multiples of the odds of a coin crossing in the holder. Combined, these two items are enough to stop me from trying very many crossovers.
Sounds vaguely similar to the Keith Test, namely, "Keith's too cheap to pay crossover fees," so if the coin looks good, the holder stays like it is.
I am looking for any year Ike in NGC PF69 UCAM * If anyone has one for sale PM with a price!
Thanks
Michael
MW Fattorosi Collection
and for certain series ............. in ngc holder if the coin is like waht i described as above,,,,,,would be better as you can get offered the coin for less money lots less if in an ngc holder whereas if the coin was in a pcgs holder the buyer might have to pay 10% to 150% more!!
crazy but such is the current market
sincerely michael
The last show I went to I looked at almost No PCGS slabbed Mercs but only at NGC Slabs. While looking at these about all I could think of is Will this cross to PCGS. In all instances my answer was no. So useing My logic I just could not bring myself to buy a coin that a Dealer wanted the Same amount of money for as a PCGS coin.
This IMO is not chaseing Registry numbers at all. What it is to myself is just buying the best coin, in my eyes, for the money spent. When and if I should find coins I like in NGC or ANACS holders that compare to the PCGS counter parts, and Meet the Fairlaneman Test, they will be bought.
Ken
Is it because their grading standards are tighter? Seems that's the case in some instances. I've got a few "really nice" PR67 coins. I can see why they don't grade PR70. I can see why they don't grade PR69. But for the life of me, I can't see why they don't grade PR68. On the other hand, I've got some in NGC holders that don't equal those in the PCGS holders of the same grade. The NGC coins seem to be graded more accurately. I think they need to loosen up a bit.
I appreciate the answers. Kinda what I was thinking about Registry collectors. We buy the plastic (because we have to) to put together PCGS sets. But still work as collectors, looking for the "coin", regardless of the plastic's name, for our collecting interests outside the Registry.
Most grading standards allow for hairlines/slide marks on 64 and 65 coins, and I know this, still the Bottom Line is I do not care for them.
Ken
Ken,
I think that gets to the root of my problem with all grading services. Why can't there be a standard to which all services adhere, not just the Sheldon scale? Agreed, grading is subjective. But, can't we agree an a little tighter standard such as what you mentioned above?
I just don't see the difficulty involved.
PCGS-MS67: $300 NGC-MS67: $150
PCGS-MS68: $10,000 NGC-MS68: $1250
Today, that same coin looks like this:
PCGS-MS67: $450 NGC-MS67 : $250
NGC-MS67* : $350+
PCGS-MS68: $12,500 NGC-MS68: $2500
NGC-MS68*: $5,000+
Look what NGC has done - it is closing the gap impressively. The same chart could be shown for silver Roosevelt Dimes and even Lincoln Cents (and if NGC would guarantee copper, the spreads would close even more), as well as many other coin series I deal with in the 20th century.
I do think this development is great for collectors and dealers. Wondercoin
<< <i>and if NGC would guarantee copper, the spreads would close even more) >>
Any word of NGC ever getting around to this?
It would be a huge plus for them.
Kevin
ACCUGRADE is a hoax!
If it's a coin that I seldom encounter, feel that it's properly graded and fairly priced, I'll occasionally buy an NGC or ANACS coin.
Jim
am i the only one who figures that NGC allows PCGS coins in their registry to get more involvement BUT also because they realize the quality associated with PCGS slabbed coins? if it were strictly about fair mindedness wouldn't they also allow ANACS, ICG and other companies holders in? the obvious answer is that they don't because they understand as we do that those companies aren't quite up to snuff with regards to proper grading. it follows that to stimulate more involvement PCGS would also allow slabs other than their own if they felt that the grading standards at those companies was proper.
i always chuckle when i read these types of threads because the general sentiment is that PCGS takes the approach they do in the registry from a purely economic point of view. i think it's a little more then that. they realize the varying standards in the game and shut the door.
with that said, i own slabs other than PCGS--------ANACS, NGC, ICG, SEGS, ACG, PCI. when i find a coin that appeals to me at a price that is just to good to pass, i'll buy it. i also see it as quite hypocritical when someone hangs out the BTCNTH rant-----buy the coin, not the holder-----and then speaks of sending coins to one service or another in order to get the highest grade under the guise of "this service is doing it right" so i use them. what dollar grabbing hogwash. it's the same coin, right? what i understand from all the game playing is that it always comes down to the slab for more than are willing to admit it. whether it's for points in a registry or dollars at resale time. six of one, half a dozen of another!!
al h.
Hmmm, another fellow Ohioian. Yeah baby! We'll own this site soon, like the Merc boys do now.
You made some good points. What did we do before "third party grading"? You had to accept the grade a dealer/seller put on the coin. If you didn't want to haggle over the grade, then it became a price issue, which in the end is what it comes down to anyway. The difference today, between the grading services, is who has the best reputation for fair/accurate grading. If you don't agree with it, it becomes a price issue. No different then when coins were traded raw.
I'm going to speculate a bit here...
If I were NGC, I would recognize the market-established value in the quality of the PCGS product. And, I would also try to be fair-minded about things... But, insofar as the registry is concerned, if I were NGC, I would adopt only those solutions that would maximize the viability of my registry product.
I would allow in PCGS slabs to my registry simply because I find it a convenient way to cut into their registry business. No more, no less. I would not allow in the other slabs because they don't necessarily help my registry product. Nor would it help generate more submissions...
I don't wish to paint Mark Salzberg, et al, as cold-hearted business folks whose only objective is to make a buck. But, let's be realistic. They do have to run a business. And, running a successful business should always be at the forefront of their actions.
EVP
How does one get a hater to stop hating?
I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com
Say you have a nice PCGS set, and you've been getting crushed at the crossover game with coins you know are properly graded and in NGC holders. You can move your ENTIRE set to NGC's Registry without having to cross everything back. Then, when you buy coins down the road, you aren't as concerned about the holder, and the number of NGC products you purchase will increase.
Genius idea.
I don't really see this as being hypocritical at all. I always hang out the BTCNTH rant. Why? Because I feel that if a person consistently buys eye appealing or PQ coins, then they stand a better chance of maximizing their returns. And, that includes the increased likelihood of getting the grade bump simply because of eye appeal (market grading) or because it was PQ to begin with.
I've been accused of being just about as pure a collector as one can get. However, I don't have any objections to getting as much money as I can for my coins. After all, money does make the world go around!
I think it would be dishonest for someone to claim that he really, truly does not care to maximize his return on his coins...
For whatever your motivation, I still say: BTCNTH.
EVP
How does one get a hater to stop hating?
I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com
I am sure there is a higher graded set out there, but I doubt if there is a more eye-appealing one. Thanks to NGC's registry anyone can go see them and either admire them or not. To me that is what a registry set is all about.
I do not own a single graded/slabbed coin that is not in a PCGS holder, with exception of the 1959 and 1959-D MS67dimes that are in an ICG holder. I bought them off of teletrade the very same night that just a single 1959-D PCGS MS67 was selling for 2x's the amount. I heard that ICG grades along the same lines as PCGS. Is that true, well we will find out when I cross them over.
That is my opinion whether it agrees with others or not. Will I buy a coin if I need it if it is in a NON-PCGS holder. Yes I will, but I will have it crossed over. I wouldn't want a collection of say 100 Statehood quarters in 7 different company slabs. It wouldn't be the same, would it?
Let me ask you this. I was looking at the latest issue of Coinworld and there is an ACG graded 1982-no P MS69 for sale. PCGS has only graded 5 buisness strike dimes in MS69, 1999-P/D and 3 2002-P's. Do you think that this coin will crossover to PCGS in MS69? What about MS68? PCGS has only graded 4 in MS68. Would it be worth it to spend the $600.00 to find out?
Paul.
Later, Paul.
Why don't you look the topic from a different angle. There are more over-graded NGC coins than over-graded PCGS coins.
We always talk about the nice coins. Of course, many nice coins stay in the NGC holders and folks are not going to argue whether they are full grade or not. It is matter that when you order an NGC coin, and when you receive it, you find that it is over-graded. After several experiences, you might stick with PCGS coins or you will stick with sight-seen only. Of course, there are over-graded PCGS coins. I am trying to talk about percentage games.
For the series that I understand, the standing liberty quarters, I don't mind to buy any grading service coin. I know what I am doing. After examined over 1000+ MS65 or better SLQs, I have to say that more good coins stay in PCGS holders compared to NGC holders; especially the MS65FH and MS66FH. For many NGC MS67 (or MS67FH) SLQs, I don't believe they could stay in PCGS MS66FH holders. The grading standards for high-end SLQ for the two companies simply not comparable.